Fao: Jom. re: ice. | Page 2 | Vital Football

Fao: Jom. re: ice.

There's no reason that having a sustainable energy policy for the future will cause blackouts.

I don't know what a warmist zealot is. I'm a scientist, not a zealot.

Our energy costs are through the roof thanks to fossil fuel cartels that receive enormous subsidies that dwarf the renewable sector.

I don't think we should be dependent on financial services as heavily as we were but I have nothing against them per se and they are obviously an important part of our economy.


Interesting but irrelevant fact for you. Many people think British industry is dead. Far from it. The Aerospace sector accounts for about 11% of gdp. (How many aeroplanes do we manufacture? Zero!)

 
Have you seen the latest research from the Centre for Policy Studies ?

If they are to be believed demand will outstrip supply dispatchable supply for the first time from early 2016

Didnt energy providers have to pay Industry to shut down a week or so ago ?
 
It seems as though you are pinning poor governmental organisation on the renewables sector?

Anyway, you could be scared about the margin, or alternatively you could read the independent report and get the facts. Here, I will provide a link:
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/88523/electricitycapacityassessment2014-fullreportfinalforpublication.pdf

The summary is that, while margins will reduce, there is a similar level of disconnection risk as in previous years and that the margin will increase in the latter part of this decade. In short, you have nothing to worry about.


"Overview
This document is Ofgem’s annual report to the Secretary of State assessing the risks to electricity security of supply in Great Britain for the next five winters [2014-2018].
Our assessment is based on data from National Grid accompanied by our own analysis. It suggests that,
absent new measures that have been introduced, the risks to the security of our electricity supply over the next five winters would be broadly consistent with those in last year’s report.
Margins are expected to fall over the next two winters as older power stations close, before improving in the later years of our analysis.
Unlike last year, we now have new measures that were introduced by Ofgem, National Grid and the government. The New Balancing Services and the Capacity Market mean that the risk of disruption to customer supplies in the coming winters has reduced compared to last year’s report."
 
Do you know what those new Measures are ITTO ? through all that Waffle and you did not answer the question

Did providers pay some Industrues to shut down last week or not due to there inability to provide sufficent energy ? also did not the same providers end up paying many times over the Wholesale price to get the generating companies to increase supply ?
 
By waffle, do you mean facts that don't support your allegations?
I don't know of any companies being paid to shut down but you might be right. Perhaps you could give a link to support the assertion? There is a voluntary scheme where large users can choose shut down between 4pm and 8pm because this increases the margin. There has been no inability to provide sufficeint energy that I'm aware of.

Your last question is again off topic. The price isn't relevant here. You said there would be blackouts. There won't be. Even if there were, it wouldn't be the fault of the renewables sector.
 
More 'waffle' from the National Grid report who, again, are not concerned over the margin. The fact that it is tighther than might be considered comfortable is entirely attributable to a failure of successive governments.

"15 Oct 2015

• Electricity margins are manageable with a range of tools available to keep the system in balance.

National Grid has today published the Winter Outlook 2015/16 report, looking ahead at the picture of supply and demand for both the gas and electricity systems for the coming winter. It follows consultation with the energy industry during the summer.

The report is published by National Grid in its role as electricity system operator and as owner and operator of the gas transmission infrastructure in GB.

The peak transmission system demand forecast, used for calculating the winter margin for the coming winter is 54.2 Gigawatts, a slight increase from last year. There has been no change in the position for generation since the Winter Review was published in July. The de-rated margin figure for winter 2015/16 is 5.1% which equates to a loss of load expectation of 1.1 hours - well within the Reliability Standard set by the Government.

Additional balancing services of 2.4 GW have been contracted for the winter period to be available to manage periods of peak demand. This includes 133MW coming from businesses who have signed up for reducing demand at peak periods if called on, in return for payment.

Cordi O’Hara, Director of UK Market Operations said:

”Electricity margins are manageable throughout the winter period and we believe we have the right tools in place to manage the system. This includes using the 2.4 GW of additional balancing services that we have ready in place for times of highest demand.

“On the gas side, supplies are expected to be comfortable this year, thanks to good availability of liquefied natural gas on the global market and stable flows from the North Sea and Norway.

”Gas demand for the winter period is expected to be broadly in line with last year, showing a slight increase to 48.6 billion cubic meters (bcm). Peak daily demand is forecast to be 465 million cubic metre (mcm).

The maximum potential delivery of gas supplies, including from storage is 613 mcm, which is significantly higher than the peak demand forecast."
 
Why would they need agreement to shut down at peak times if they had sufficient capacity ITTO ?

Give the workers a Tea Break maybe ?

Are you also denying that the Power Companies have 1000s of large Diesel Powered generators on stand by, would they be the additional balancing services they mention but give no details of ? to supplement supply in case capacity is over reached, I think so. Good clean energy eh ? shut down perfectly serviceable coal Fired Power Station and the remaining Pits that supply them and lets burn Diesel instead

loonie lefty logic at its best


Would those range of tools inc those useless Windmills that generated diddly last week when the wind didnt blow or the solar panels that didnt either as the it was Night

Quoting Official statements when it suits is meaningless, what else would you expect them to say ? I think I will believe Independent reports who have no self interest

UK at 'real risk' of power shortages, report warns ~~~ from the Telegraph today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/3507473/UK-at-real-risk-of-power-shortages-report-warns.html
 
This is funny, you do make me laugh.
You ignore recent independent watchdog reports in favour of an energy sector consultancy company as quoted in the Barclay brothers' tory mouthpiece. And even they have to write "real risk" in quotes because it isn't a "real risk". And it was written in 2008! Independent reports that have no self interest? Are you kidding? For someone who is supposedly hot on watching our for vested interests this is quite hilarious!


You're asking me very oblique questions again.
Do I deny the presence of generators? No.
Is the margin tight so measures have been put in place to make sure there are no blackouts? Yes.
Is it clean? No.
Do we have enough capacity from renewable or otherwise clean energy? No.
Is this the fault of clean energy producers? No.
Was it windy last week? Err, YES. It was the windiest week of the year!


The best bit was when you said the 'loonie' left are responsible for closing the pits.

Now don't be evasive, I'm still waiting for the evidence that any company had to shut down production last week. I have an open mind on that because margins are tight, but I'm guessing it was bs. And there won't be blackouts, will there? Because of all the stinky generators and voluntary switching off (from 4pm until 8pm) by some companies, and only then if the worst comes to the worst and we have yet another extreme weather anomoly.
 
Then why the need to have an agreement be it voluntary to shut down ITTO

Surely if energy security was guranteed then there is no need , and i did not say the leftie closed down the Pits as usual you are twisting things there green policies are causing pit closures

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09/03/britain-faces-winter-of-blackouts-as-firms-are-asked-to-ration-electricity/

or this one from the Germans who you admired so much

previoushttp://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/05/02/german-green-energy-policies-on-the-verge-of-failure/ly

Finally BS was it ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3304011/National-Grid-pays-factories-NOT-use-electricity-multiple-breakdowns-power-stations-leads-winter-shortage.html

But hey you keep on believeing the "" Official reports as they have been so accurate in the past.


 
MrsBrownsBoys - 18/11/2015 10:23

Have you seen the latest research from the Centre for Policy Studies ?

If they are to be believed demand will outstrip supply dispatchable supply for the first time from early 2016

Didnt energy providers have to pay Industry to shut down a week or so ago ?
Click to expand...

Don't worry, the Chinese are coming to the rescue.

They will be building a new Power station near to you anytime soon.

Be interesting to see what happens the first time there is a diplomatic incident.
 
Its not been agreed, yet despite what the ""Official" report may say

Great though the Chinese pay for it, the French are going to build it and guess who pays ?
 
It gets worse. Now you're posting links to an extreme republican website quoting UKIP members.
This one is also predicting a winter of blackouts. And was published last year. I remember zero blackouts last winter, in the same way that there weren't any following the same scare@@@@ering prediction from the last opinion piece you posted from 2008.

You claim I twisted what you said (as usual). You wrote,
"shut down perfectly serviceable coal Fired Power Station and the remaining Pits that supply them and lets burn Diesel instead
loonie lefty logic at its best
"
Are you not blaming the lack of power stations and pits and burning deisel on on the loonie left?
In fact you say I've twisted it and that you never said the left shut pits, then say that they are,
" i did not say the leftie closed down the Pits as usual you are twisting things there green policies are causing pit closures"

So I'm confused. But I'm definitely sure that we're way off topic. All the predictions of blackouts in the past have been wrong. Current predictions of blackouts for this winter will also be wrong. Neither the energy producers nor the National Grid are predicting blackouts.
It sells a few rags though, I suppose.
 
Re your Daily Mail link.
"
National Grid said: ‘This is part of our standard toolkit for balancing supply and demand and is not an indication there is an immediate risk of disruption to supply or blackouts. It indicates that we would like our power held in reserve to be higher.’
"
I.e. they want to keep the margin higher. No-one was forced to do anything and I never said the margins were good. In fact, I made the point that it was a failure of repeated governments. This has nothing to do with the renewables sector. It clearly isn't ready to take the full load of the nation and no one ever said it was. Stop blaming innovative clean tech for the failings of your elected goverment.
 
Oh I see now ITTO

If its not on the BBC or Guardian its a right wing report and therefore inaccurate, perhaps if you read the reports instead of trying to demean them you would see they quote several sources .

Dont you think it ironic that in the rush for this green energy they have to have thousands of Diesel Generators on stand by in case convential energy can not meet demand ? possibly the dirtiest form imaginable

Now why would they need that and how often have they been used ?

No of course you dont, and I repeat what else would you expect the ""Officials" to say ?

Yes we have fecked up ? we have a green Hangover ? its you in denial
 
I did read it and, of the contrasting opinions, I chose to believe the national grid rep who is responsible for keeping the lights on. He says they will stay on. Alternatively, you could believe the politician or the journalist from a notoriously partisan publication.
So while none can be considered completely free from bias, some are obviously more biased than others.
I've only quoted from the National Grid report and from the the independent watchdog Ofgem. You may think it's waffle but, yes, I think they're more reliable than the Mail and american oil industry stooges.

You're offering no solutions, just hate and blame for the renewables sector. That's unfair. They have continually increased their contribution to the grid despite being suppressed all the way, and being still further undermined right now just as they are on the verge of becoming profitable.
Pretending the scientists are wrong or corrupt does no one any favours.
Diesel generators are utterly shit but probably necessary in the very short term or they held in back up for use in emergencies - no argument there. I don't know what a green hangover is, or what I'm supposedly in denial about?
 
Incidentally, if you want to know the character of the UKIP politican, Roger Helmer, he has said a number of 'interesting' things including stating that "global warming is a politicians' scam designed to centralise power and increase taxes". Nope. It is just a scientific fact.

He also believes that some of the blame lies with females when they are raped, that there is no such thing as homophobia, that the catholic church is "systematically @@@@@phile", and thinks the NHS is "a 60-year mistake",

In a nutshell, he's a bit of a wally.
 
in_the_top_one - 18/11/2015 14:37

Incidentally, if you want to know the character of the UKIP politican, Roger Helmer, he has said a number of 'interesting' things including stating that "global warming is a politicians' scam designed to centralise power and increase taxes". Nope. It is just a scientific fact.

He also believes that some of the blame lies with females when they are raped, that there is no such thing as homophobia, that the catholic church is "systematically @@@@@phile", and thinks the NHS is "a 60-year mistake",

In a nutshell, he's a bit of a wally.
Click to expand...

No come on.. A bit?

Stop being nice.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3323050/Britain-face-major-shortage-electricity-New-Year-following-decades-government-mismanagement-report-warns-today.html

Yep a lets believe the Officials and make the usual accusations against anyone who does not have left wing ideals

same old same old
 
A Daily Mail article the font of all wisdom? Now I've seen it all.
 
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