F@@@ The Disabled
- Thread starter The Fear
- Start date
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Guest
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Ive said all along that nobody in the UK should be getting free money unless its pensioners. A credit card style voucher system should be put in place instead. All major supermarkets have loyalty cards, they know what all their shoppers are buying. This should be the same for all those collecting benefits. How do we know how much state benefits are spent on illegal drugs, alcohol etc when it should be spent on children, food, clothing etc? The system needs a complete overhaul to make it safer and less corrupt.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
You have said before, you were wrong then and you are wrong now. It isn't free money. I do hope that one day you don't find out what it is like to have your ability to get out and work taken from you.
You should be proud that this country tries to help those less fortunate BUT YES we should ALL be indignant about those who fuck the system AND at the governments (Tory and Labour) who pushed people benefit wise to 'manufacture' the unemployment figures to suit them.
It isn't the benefit system that is at fault, it is the benefit system being exploited. That is the Gov's fault for a) encouraging it when it suited them b) not cracking down properly
The only way this country could sort out these things is by a cross party announcement that it cannot be done any more and proper insurances being available and people educated that they need to take them out. Same as with the health service, "sorry, we can't do it anymore, we are going to have to privatise some of it, here are your insurance options and you get a tax break for taking it into your own hands and then we'll only help those who can't help themselves."
American system doesn't seem to work brilliantly though.
And everything should be means tested, and that includes pensions, millionaires shouldn't get the same as those who haven't been able to 'make it' but the cut off point shouldn't be so low as to penalise the strivers and workers who do work hard and save through their lives.
This 'free money' stuff for disabled in specific is just utter garbage, no other word for it.
You should be proud that this country tries to help those less fortunate BUT YES we should ALL be indignant about those who fuck the system AND at the governments (Tory and Labour) who pushed people benefit wise to 'manufacture' the unemployment figures to suit them.
It isn't the benefit system that is at fault, it is the benefit system being exploited. That is the Gov's fault for a) encouraging it when it suited them b) not cracking down properly
The only way this country could sort out these things is by a cross party announcement that it cannot be done any more and proper insurances being available and people educated that they need to take them out. Same as with the health service, "sorry, we can't do it anymore, we are going to have to privatise some of it, here are your insurance options and you get a tax break for taking it into your own hands and then we'll only help those who can't help themselves."
American system doesn't seem to work brilliantly though.
And everything should be means tested, and that includes pensions, millionaires shouldn't get the same as those who haven't been able to 'make it' but the cut off point shouldn't be so low as to penalise the strivers and workers who do work hard and save through their lives.
This 'free money' stuff for disabled in specific is just utter garbage, no other word for it.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Well, he should be done, that is 100% fact.
I am not going to argue re: his conduct obviously. However, with some disability, you can do one thing one day, try again the next, you can do half the thing, the next day you could be flat on your back in agony or be getting the flair up of whatever.
Just depends on the condition, some are accumulative, look after yourself, do very little and you are 'ok' start pushing and bang.
It is a varied and complicated doo dah.
Doctors should be being consulted far more (should have been all along) re: what patients are claiming, if they are still due etc. It is a lazy system.
ATOS judging it all isn't the answer, doctor panels was the answer
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Guest
Guest
Some will say that Bipolar is over diagnosed. In what was once a rare illness is now very common, with the rise being very high in youths being diagnosed.
Most kids have mood swings dont they? Most kids will throw a paddy in a rage to gain attention. Surely it can be dangerous for their mental health in the future if you label them with bipolar? If you tell a person he is a dog for long enough, sooner or later that person will act like a dog.(over exaggeration but hope you get what I mean).
This is not a dig at you Kat as I dont know your situation. But am I alone in thinking that "special needs" for our kids in schools has increased? And that mental health problems has also risen with it? Are humans interfering too much with the natural way for a child to grow up and in effect causing these mental health problems by giving them a label?
Most kids have mood swings dont they? Most kids will throw a paddy in a rage to gain attention. Surely it can be dangerous for their mental health in the future if you label them with bipolar? If you tell a person he is a dog for long enough, sooner or later that person will act like a dog.(over exaggeration but hope you get what I mean).
This is not a dig at you Kat as I dont know your situation. But am I alone in thinking that "special needs" for our kids in schools has increased? And that mental health problems has also risen with it? Are humans interfering too much with the natural way for a child to grow up and in effect causing these mental health problems by giving them a label?
a horse ffs, what goes through people's minds?
James06
Vital Football Legend
It wasn't at all meant as a bite, things like ME and Bipolar are the sort of illnesses people use to get out of work and onto the benefit scheme. My missus has sleepless nights because of the poor care due to understaffing and overcrowding in the nhs. People are dying on trolleys in corridors, walk in centres have two hour waiting times, a and e five hours and an appointment with a gp takes weeks.
The pressure that everyone is under in the nhs is unbelievable, more so than any other employer by far. Nurses and other staff are leaving the profession at a shocking rate. To give them the burden of assessing benefit claimants on top of everything else would be bonkers, the system can't cope a it is!
The pressure that everyone is under in the nhs is unbelievable, more so than any other employer by far. Nurses and other staff are leaving the profession at a shocking rate. To give them the burden of assessing benefit claimants on top of everything else would be bonkers, the system can't cope a it is!
James06
Vital Football Legend
I think you make a good point tea. Certainly when I was a kid there weren't so many mental disorders and child psychologist/counselling sessions there seems to be nowadays.
Also, when Lenny Henry goes out to Africa and finds kids at very rock bottom, shovelling shit to make tuppence a week, he wants to raise money for leprosy, malaria, dengue fever and whatever, but I've not once herd of any of these kids having ME or Bi polar? How come?
badge73
Vital 1st Team Regular
i dont think their own gps should be used in assessing disability, as to many nudge nudge wink wink can happen. then again i wonder if that would happen if they were told if any awarded money would be becoming out of there budget ....
im most likely going to have to jump (see what i did there) through the hoops and form filling again, but to honest i dont care if i have to sit with atos, dwp, own gp or drag a bloke off the street to assess. not that it matters to much as soon as im mobile again (mobile being back on to one stick) then sort another bike out and go back to work.
im most likely going to have to jump (see what i did there) through the hoops and form filling again, but to honest i dont care if i have to sit with atos, dwp, own gp or drag a bloke off the street to assess. not that it matters to much as soon as im mobile again (mobile being back on to one stick) then sort another bike out and go back to work.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Agree re: pressure on the NHS Jim, 100%
However, as you agree, we have to reverse what Maggie and other politicians started. ie pushing people towards long term disability benefits to get them off the unemployment lists.
To do that, it has to be done humanely, correctly and with time. The system was started a long time ago and it has to be dismantled. Personally I'd rather cross party unity on this. They should rip up the benefit system and re-start it as it is now a mess, tampered with by every government since it begun.
I digress...
!
Doctors (GP's) are best placed to do this. There must be enough GP's available. If not, then somehow more training needs to be done to get more medically qualified people consulted as to what the rules should be.
Then it needs properly medically qualified people to make the judgements and a good, easy appeal system if a patient has a justifiable reason to ask for a second opinion.
It is the only way.
Again, it has to be done, it should have been done a long long time ago, in fact this burden should never have been allowed to get out of hand in the first place. But it must be done correctly.
At the moment, it doesn't appear to be and the money being paid to ATOS is pretty disgraceful really.
However, as you agree, we have to reverse what Maggie and other politicians started. ie pushing people towards long term disability benefits to get them off the unemployment lists.
To do that, it has to be done humanely, correctly and with time. The system was started a long time ago and it has to be dismantled. Personally I'd rather cross party unity on this. They should rip up the benefit system and re-start it as it is now a mess, tampered with by every government since it begun.
I digress...
!
Doctors (GP's) are best placed to do this. There must be enough GP's available. If not, then somehow more training needs to be done to get more medically qualified people consulted as to what the rules should be.
Then it needs properly medically qualified people to make the judgements and a good, easy appeal system if a patient has a justifiable reason to ask for a second opinion.
It is the only way.
Again, it has to be done, it should have been done a long long time ago, in fact this burden should never have been allowed to get out of hand in the first place. But it must be done correctly.
At the moment, it doesn't appear to be and the money being paid to ATOS is pretty disgraceful really.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Amen to the getting back to work asap. That is the spirit that needs to be re-instilled in a whole generation of claimants (not just disability/ill)
But you want to be assessed by the right people to get the decision right in the first place, surely?
Otherwise it is more money for appeals etc and distress to you in the meantime.
But then, you've already admitted you can jump through hoops so you are just one of the malingerers really! LOL
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Everything has to have a label these days. If I'd grown up in the modern schooling system I'm sure I'd have been add, adhd, bipolar, unpopular, dispraxic, unilateral and all sorts.
To me I was just a kid growing up with a bit too much energy and an ability to sit and listen for long. I'm not much different now! :3:
But (although I'm sure my parents wouldn't have allowed) they'd have had me drugged to the hilt to make me fit into what society requires.
I'd take detention, bollockings and the cane any day of the week over that.
(Flip side, some of the kids who were dyslexic etc did used to get tortured and labeled as thick, a bit of understanding as to how to teach them and they can attain the right education levels etc)
badge73
Vital 1st Team Regular
i dont know how many doctors are struck off now a days as hardly hear about it, a bit like teachers, as virtually have to commit murder to get the sack. though in theory a doctor cant be wrong much due to the phrase ... "in my humble medical opinion" that way they are covered.
im not against doctors doing the examinations but do think it has to be an independent doctor and not an atos or their own gp.
badge73
Vital 1st Team Regular
well have to do something work wise as find its the best thing (in the right circumstances) for my mental health, was only a week in hospital and climbing the walls, same as being sat at home at the moment, i hate not being part of society or making a contribution either in paying tax or doing anything.
its one of the reasons i hate about facebook, as i have about at least half a dozen on my list who are on the sick, yet all they do is play games on the bloody thing, did say to one that if you can sit and play games on a computer then surely be able to sit at a desk in an office .... it didnt go down to well :17:
badge73
Vital 1st Team Regular
sir steff makes a valid point, as to every couple of people taking the piss out of the system, there is people in genuine need of help and cant get it, it can become a knightmare getting help and yet some sections of the community never have a problem ....
hope it gets sorted out very soon steff :14:
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Agreed Steff/Badge.
This is what I've been trying to say. Means test, get the money where it is needed. But the Govs are too self centred and self interested to give a fuck.
They say means testing would be more expensive. It is utter bullshit. You apply for DLA etc. You are surely asked what savings etc you have? If not, hey presto, add the question to the application forms.
You should set a decent upper limit of earnings because for some it is very expensive being disabled, they should certainly be helped more with transport as they can't just walk out of the door to local public transport etc etc. But for people over £x getting the same money, it is just wrong.
This is what I've been trying to say. Means test, get the money where it is needed. But the Govs are too self centred and self interested to give a fuck.
They say means testing would be more expensive. It is utter bullshit. You apply for DLA etc. You are surely asked what savings etc you have? If not, hey presto, add the question to the application forms.
You should set a decent upper limit of earnings because for some it is very expensive being disabled, they should certainly be helped more with transport as they can't just walk out of the door to local public transport etc etc. But for people over £x getting the same money, it is just wrong.
