Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 124 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

Whether a coaxed deal or 'hard Brexit' with new arrangement - it'll all be a fudge and nothing will change in reality, other than paying more/more irritation/fallout in between.

The UK is too tied to the EU and the EU to us on every level for us not to be in a different place. It'll just be dressed differently in a way that suits both parties in my humble - especially with Trump continuing to act like a tit.

The whole thing is a dick measuring exercise so somebody can say I won. In a decade we'll be where we are now in reality, the packaging will just be different.
 
No deal odds 1/3

I always thought we’d end up with that situation Mike. It’s certinaly a very difficult thing to negotiate, negotiation theory is pretty straight forward however very few people are good at it.

Maybe the break point plan should be kept under wraps and an opening position much further from what the EU want should’ve been made? Albeit made 6 months ago. Whatever that position is!
 
danvilla2 said:
No deal odds 1/3

I always thought we’d end up with that situation Mike. It’s certinaly a very difficult thing to negotiate, negotiation theory is pretty straight forward however very few people are good at it.

Maybe the break point plan should be kept under wraps and an opening position much further from what the EU want should’ve been made? Albeit made 6 months ago. Whatever that position is!
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May's position seems pretty far from reality at the moment. The whole Brexit lie was that it was possible to have all of the benefits of being in the EU and none of the drawbacks.
 
Just to caveat before the rest of my next post, I can’t stand Theresa May as much as the next person. Lacks everything a leader should be.

But Corbyn and the Labour Party proving that all politicians are exactly the same, labour in complete silence actively hoping that the biggest issue impacting our country from the economy to security goes tits up so he can get in power.

Instead of being the strong opposition party in the commons, with grand visions of delivering a better Brexit than their counterparts instead have chosen to wait in the wings without even an murmur of suggestion as to where they stand on the issue.

The opposition party had an important role in these negotiations on home turf but for me, do not do what I expect their role to be and will not get my vote(not that they ever have).
 
danvilla2 said:
Just to caveat before the rest of my next post, I can’t stand Theresa May as much as the next person. Lacks everything a leader should be.

But Corbyn and the Labour Party proving that all politicians are exactly the same, labour in complete silence actively hoping that the biggest issue impacting our country from the economy to security goes tits up so he can get in power.

Instead of being the strong opposition party in the commons, with grand visions of delivering a better Brexit than their counterparts instead have chosen to wait in the wings without even an murmur of suggestion as to where they stand on the issue.

The opposition party had an important role in these negotiations on home turf but for me, do not do what I expect their role to be and will not get my vote(not that they ever have).
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You are dead right. Corbyn should be arguing against Brexit but he is trying to avoid the obvious trap of 'ignoring the will of the people'.
 
Even the will of the people is a soundbyte - I'm yet to see a poll of those who changed their minds but it would make it even tighter than what it already was if that translated through.

It just means a decade of shit and mess but bottom line is nothing will be different....we just pay oodles of wonga plodding through so some can say they won and took the country back from those pesky foreigners, when they don't understand the actual arrangement in place and any failings were down to our Gov implementing things that 'as a country we already had a say in' at Euro level.

Let alone the veto and everything else.

BBC had a nutter from the fisheries on this week on a panel - we want all 200 miles of the North Sea and not the bit Europe gives us (presumably the Navy would be there to shoot anyone who encroached!) and we don't care about Europe we can sell to China.

Q - What about fresh fish that wouldn't reach China and has a huge European market.

Europe won't refuse to deal with us.

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I bet they would if we started a war over Cod you pillock!

As BB said above - all the benefits, none of the cost - it was an expensive dream with too many believing the likes of Rees-Mogg who sees no drawbacks because he's already invested in companies/involved elsewhere making money from this shitstorm - his Russia ties, the ERG in Parliament that skeeves every available pound it can and he's proud to say he heads them up.

It's not even the anti-Euro standpoint of a decade ago - the Brexiteers at the top all have a reason that suits them for the standpoint now - it's not a conviction, Rees-Mogg proves that, Boris as a pro-European heading the out campaign more than proves it.
 
Just chancers on both sides playing games. We'll be the losers, not them.

Agree Dan, BB and MF.

It's a mess.

I fear recession might return with all the uncertainty. Hope to goodness I'm wrong.
 
It seems to me that either:

Britain stay 'in regulatory alignment' with the EU, following all of the rules but not having any say in how they are created.

Or

There is a border between Northern Ireland and Britain, effectively pushing Northern Ireland out of the Union and possibly encouraging Scotland to consider their options.

Which of those is a better option?
 
It's not even A or B there though is it. It still means a mix where we have nothing that Brexit was sold on.

Want to deal on extradition, there has to be agreement on laws and punishments. Want to trade, there has to be agreement on standards etc etc etc etc right across the board.

And now May has thrown her toys again - it's not for the EU to come up with ideas, we (apparently) want to leave.

Villa's defensive situation is more stable and sensible than these negotiations! lol
 
A total balls up right from Cameron's promise of a referendum to stop the Conservative Party falling apart, through to his weak negotiating which brought a so called deal that would sway the opinion of anti Europeans but which offered nothing of note, up to the present shambles.
The Tories are in a mess and Corbyn is a hypocrite whose lukewarm efforts in the referendum did nothing to promote a 'remain' vote. This is a man who fundamentally believes that the E.U. is a capitalist racket designed to constrain workers' wages only he wasn't honest enough to own up to his beliefs. I still don't know where he stands on this issue.
A real politician. A creature of expediency.
 
Listened to the last couple of podcasts (episodes 7 and 8) from 3 blokes in a pub who have been fact finding out in Geneva, and some of the stuff coming from their meetings is quite staggering.

I have a healthy bit of scepticism about everything these days but they have relevant knowledge and can put some flesh on the bones of their arguments, unlike the likes of Farage and Mogg whose only argument seems to be that everything will be fine.

The more I hear of all the complexities of this issue, the more I think how crazy it was to have ever had this referendum. I have a first in the EU law part of my law degree, but I had nowhere near enough knowledge to make a fully informed decision in the referendum. Putting the future of our country in the hands of an electorate who have no understanding of the relevant issues was an act of supreme lunacy, in my opinion, and now the country is going to pay a heavy price.

One “positive” is that, when Bruce gets sacked, his level of cluelessness should get him an instant role in our Brexit negotiating team!
 
ironside said:
A total balls up right from Cameron's promise of a referendum to stop the Conservative Party falling apart, through to his weak negotiating which brought a so called deal that would sway the opinion of anti Europeans but which offered nothing of note, up to the present shambles.
The Tories are in a mess and Corbyn is a hypocrite whose lukewarm efforts in the referendum did nothing to promote a 'remain' vote. This is a man who fundamentally believes that the E.U. is a capitalist racket designed to constrain workers' wages only he wasn't honest enough to own up to his beliefs. I still don't know where he stands on this issue.
A real politician. A creature of expediency.
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I fully agree with you on Cameron but the Tory narrative of Corbyn being to blame for Brexit is nonsense. This is entirely a Tory clusterfuck. It's going to destroy the union and Corbyn is right to stay out of it.
 
Corbyn has always been against the E.U. The Tories are to blame for the present balls up and I don't think they will ever come to agree on a common approach but Corbyn's lack of convinced support for remain smacks of political opportunism. He would prefer to see us out of the E.U but is scared to come out and say so.
For the record I voted remain and regard his less than enthusiastic support a great disappointment. However I suppose he has half an eye on the Labour constituencies that voted 'out'. As I said , he's a creature of expediency.
 
And that's not the stand point he's taken - the only thing he stands for is his own promotion like Boris.

May is 100% onto a loser.

Interesting with Labour and Corbyn seems to duck everything and leave it to members, and then McDonnell goes out and commits suicide twisting it to their agenda - pissing off even more of the core.

Don't know how reliable coming from the Labour Remain side, but they claimed today it was now upwards of 70% for remain within the membership when polled and a significant difference from 2016 as more see through the Leave BS. But I half know they would say that when arguing for a second referendum. Just as Leave cling to will of the people and nobody has changed their minds.

Slightly Soft Ming The Less Than Merciless is the more viable, but even he's said he's off in the near future although he wouldn't put a date on it so God knows who the Libs would end up with then?
 
If you can judge the room and Kier Starmer - Labour wants remain now - will Corbyn pivot and make it interesting?
 
Big constituency's did and I think Starmer and some other they had on banging the second vote drum admitted their own areas voted leave.

But the room was remain based on the cheer when he drew the line under 'no remain' option based on McDonnell yesterday and it loosely ties in with the Lab Remain bloke yesterday talking 70%ish within the member base now wanting to remain.

Whether the swing and change of mind is that much? Members aren't necessarily representative of voters...

Labour look as split as the Tories - but if Corbyn goes with his members as he does to avoid making a decision, they have to surely now be a 'remain' party far stronger than they were during the initial vote.
 
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