Europe In Out Shake it all about | Page 120 | Vital Football

Europe In Out Shake it all about

I'm not so sure about the notion of another referendum. It's just a rather alien concept in the UK. We do have them in Ireland but then we also have a written constitution.
Surely it'd be better to re-emphasise the supremacy of Parliament?
 
I think it's the only way - every leaver I know voted for different reasons. One of my aunts was talking about it in relation to the NHS and not getting GP appointments. We know there were businesses who voted leave without realising how it would impact on their business.

I have no idea how a second vote would work in terms of choices, as Green's idea of 1st/2nd choice or remain etc still seems restrictive in terms of identifying clues for proper negotiations.

The idiots spouting respect democracy are the crowd who don't know what they voted for and they are getting on my tits now as they hump like Victor Meldrew.

Fair does those who voted knowing what they wanted, got no issue there, but as you say JF, they aren't getting what they want either.

But this is so torn we need a vote to identify what people want what and then act on that. If it's 'no deal' and full break, I think that would be a mistake but at least it would be a proper democratic consensus.
 
I'm not so sure about the notion of another referendum. It's just a rather alien concept in the UK. We do have them in Ireland but then we also have a written constitution.
Surely it'd be better to re-emphasise the supremacy of Parliament?
No, our MP's are cocking fidiots anyway and only act for themselves. Look at the mess they've made of the first one because they couldn't share an IQ point amongst themselves.
 
The original Referendum just asked if you wanted to leave the EU, or not. It was so vague as to be useless.

May's plan meets the referendum's result, so why is everyone moaning? Oh, wait, is it because Cameron cocked it up?
 
If anything the original questions lends itself to a full, non negotiated withdrawal.

We aren't doing that, so who is getting what they wanted even if they voted out?
 
That's reading a lot into it, Mike. A full withdrawal should have mentioned all the varying organisations we are part of.

Leaving the EU is actually a very narrow part of the whole picture.

If only we could go back in time, and do it properly.
 
Oh I agree, but if you want to fit the referendum to a specific instruction to Parliament, that's it for me. And that's not what May is doing. So the whole argument about having a second more intelligent referendum being anti democratic is bollocks, because the people spouting that, are by default supporting May whilst calling on her to do something different!
 
I see Vote Leave have been reported to the police for breaking electoral law. Great, but we all know nothing will happen, maybe a slap on the wrist and a fine of some sort.

Total waste of time.
 
The vote leave thing has been going on for 2 years, they keep bleating they are being picked on with bias! lol The one has been fined personally £20k and it's all a conspiracy is the best I can make out the wibbles.
 
Do I think I was wrong to be honest no because further down the line the E.U. are going to have to deal with some bigger issues than brexit e.g. The Italian banks could bring the euro crashing down the rise of the right wing across Europe has still to run its course. All this could have been avoided if France & Germany had given Cameron something to work with.

Well the right wing thing is only exasperated by UK, the EU was supposed to foster cooperation in Europe and avoid future wars and nip that tension in the bud. The UK as a large multicultural society and strong nation have now destabilized that blockade against rising right wing, its not the UKs fault if it gets worse of course.
It must be said that the UK does have issues on that front too as much or worse than any other nation. A loud minority was able to talk millions of presumably good people into a decision based on lies with some untones of discrimination.

I suppose the final thing is France and Germany owe the UK nothing. There was an inherent disregard for the consequences of Brexit by the people who pushed it. The border with Ireland being an Irish issue blatantly disregards International Law and the well-being of not just Irish citizens but UK citizens. Its a bilateral international agreement that can't just be disregarded on a whim.

Its still amazing to me that it can still be seen as a good decision when the whole campaign was built on lies, deceit and that it is very apparent no real plan was ever considered.
 
Before the referendum and in debate with my son he cited
"We're the 5th strongest/biggest economy in the world" The fact that this was whilst we were part of Europe was wasted on him.

David Cameron had six years as Prime Minister and I would suggest he (and that ****** Osborne) done more damage to this country than any other political leader in the history of political leaders.

Lets just hope Corbyn never gets the opportunity out do him.
 
Well the right wing thing is only exasperated by UK, the EU was supposed to foster cooperation in Europe and avoid future wars and nip that tension in the bud. The UK as a large multicultural society and strong nation have now destabilized that blockade against rising right wing, its not the UKs fault if it gets worse of course.
It must be said that the UK does have issues on that front too as much or worse than any other nation. A loud minority was able to talk millions of presumably good people into a decision based on lies with some untones of discrimination.

I suppose the final thing is France and Germany owe the UK nothing. There was an inherent disregard for the consequences of Brexit by the people who pushed it. The border with Ireland being an Irish issue blatantly disregards International Law and the well-being of not just Irish citizens but UK citizens. Its a bilateral international agreement that can't just be disregarded on a whim.

Its still amazing to me that it can still be seen as a good decision when the whole campaign was built on lies, deceit and that it is very apparent no real plan was ever considered.


Like I said at the time CDX there was an awful lot that went into my decision to vote leave and have already explained as the son of immigrants none of it was racist. I dont wish to bore folk with my diatribe as have had this discussion within my own family.And many a good discussion on here with Heath,Mike and others. To try to deal with your points.

No1. there was no plan in place if we left the Leave campaign was a cross party grouping not a political party,that was down to Cameron ,Osborne etc they did not bother.

2. I would respectfully suggest that the far right in the U.K. is not a force in Parliament. Compare this to France,Germany & Italy never mind some of the other nations where it is far worse (they were already on the rise before Brexit vote).

3. Cannot speak for everyone who voted leave.I am sure there were many different reasons put forward.Did anyone vote leave based on what they saw on the side of a bus If so then they have my sympathy.
My biggest beef with remain campaign Where were the positives for staying in ? I am talking at the run up and time of the vote, only ever saw the threats from Osborne etc never oh look what your giving up by leaving.

4. France & Germany owe the U.K. nothing . And for me there you have it some Union. No they do not owe us anything but a little show of friendship would have made it more difficult for people to vote leave. Instead you had the vision of a British P.M. going round with the begging bowl being turned away at every door.

5. Lies and deceit. Yep agree with you but lets not forget to mention
BOTH campaigns were full of bull. Cameron,Farage,Osborne,Johnson.
I cant speak for others but made my decision based on where I saw Europe heading not on the crap put forward by both campaigns.

6. The Irish border. Here again agree with you very important and probably the only reason I would reverse my vote, if a way could not be found to leave it open. Puzzles me because a border already exists
for Currency & VAT which leads me to think there is a solution there
however I am not a politician.

Had many good discussions on here CDX
so please take my reply in the way it is intended without rancour or acid just another point of view. and please remember I am one of very few on here willing to own up to voting leave and put my point of view
knowing how strongly many on here are in favour of remain.
 
My biggest beef with remain campaign Where were the positives for staying in ? I am talking at the run up and time of the vote, only ever saw the threats from Osborne etc never oh look what your giving up by leaving.

.

Yup. I voted remain but I agree with this, it was a woeful campaign and as I have said a few times in this thread, it actually should have been quite an easy sell, especially to energise the younger folks to vote.

They blew it looking at the negatives and paying too much attention to the liars and political chancers pushing the leave vote.

Idiots on both sides and what I expected to happen has, it's become a mess because I wouldn't charge our politicians to organise a pee up in a brewery, let alone something this complicated.