EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 718 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

shotshy said:
Oh I don’t know
Macron is a suitable enemy.
Thatcherite right winger. 😁
Over seven thousand comments on the lead story in the Guardian, all supporting Macron over sausagegate.
Yep. That’s right.
Over seven thousand on the left leaning Guardian backing a hard right Thatcherite.
The world is genuinely confused.
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It's not a patriotic war and there are some facts. One of them is that Macron did not say what the Express ansd Mail claim he did. I don't need to support him to acknowledge that, or to note that Johnson can't answer a straight question on the matter and struggles with the truth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1404095831238709250
 
just a few points to save all u chaps arguing over nothing.
All governments will shortly be brought down. The EU is bankrupt and will no longer exist, the same as the UN and United Nations.
All elections over the world have been manipulated for years, and the person put in power is the one that the deep state want. However they have made 2 big mistakes which has cost them and helped the good guys end the evil.
1 they underestimated the popularity of trump by a long way so did not allow the election machinery to transfer enough votes from trump to clinton.
2 they made the same mistake with brexit. Leave vote was actually 70%

133 million people are registered to vote in the usa, and 159 million voted. Trump actually got 80 million votes. All will be revealed starting with the results of the Arizona recount due out this week
 
jogills said:
It's not a patriotic war and there are some facts. One of them is that Macron did not say what the Express ansd Mail claim he did. I don't need to support him to acknowledge that, or to note that Johnson can't answer a straight question on the matter and struggles with the truth.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1404095831238709250
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That is not proof that Macron did not say what the Express and Mail claimed, as that was in a conversation with Johnson, not a press conference where he is clearly backtracking after realising he has stirred up a row. (and why is Mr Taylor holding an EU flag and referring to himself as "Mr Europe"?)

Macron is not coming up with a solution to the problems that the NI is currently experiencing in sourcing goods from the rest of the UK, which is the only union it is part of.

Regardless of treaties or agreements, practicalities take precedence and as the over zealous interference in the supply chain is causing hardship to part of our domestic union, an updated solution is required, even if it involves a soft spot check point on the island of Ireland, close to the border between NI and ROI.

If we were effectively blockading the supply of goods from France to Corsica, adversely affecting his union, I think Macron's view may be different.
 
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GillsBluenose said:
That is not proof that Macron did not say what the Express and Mail claimed, as that was in a conversation with Johnson, not a press conference where he is clearly backtracking after realising he has stirred up a row. (any why is Mr Taylor holding an EU flag and referring to himself as "Mr Europe"?)

He is not coming up with a solution to the problems that the NI is currently experiencing in sourcing goods from the rest of the UK.

Regardless of treaties or agreements, practicalities take precedence and as the over zealous interference in the supply chain is causing hardship to part of our domestic union, an updated solution is required, even if it involves a soft spot check point on the island of Ireland, close to the border between NI and ROI.

If we were effectively blockading the supply of goods from France to Corsica, adversely affecting his union, I think Macron's view may be different.
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..and if my auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle.
 
shotshy said:
I wonder what Macron will say when the UDF kicks off.
Lost in translation ?
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More interesting is what Johnson will do if that happens. The DUP are losing ground in every sense and the ballot box is unlikely to be their friend in the future. It's worrying but the responsibility lies with Johnson. I know what he said before and after the agreement was signed and must assume that everyone else does too.

If Johnson and his government believe so firmly in the integrity of the UK then they aren't living up to the rhetoric and it's a fail so far. The Union looks rockier than at any time in my lifetime and we seem to be endangering it further with every passing day.
 
jogills said:
If Johnson and his government believe so firmly in the integrity of the UK then they aren't living up to the rhetoric and it's a fail so far. The Union looks rockier than at any time in my lifetime and we seem to be endangering it further with every passing day.
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So are all the Protestant Loyalists suddenly going to become Republicans? Rigggggght.

For all Johnson's faults, logically he is standing up for NI as he has noticed the threats to the supply chains.

IMHO agreeing the protocol was what would have lost him and the DUP some support. Standing up to the EU when problems are starting to occur, and reiterating that the UK stands together, will probably regain some trust there.

Von der Leyen is saying that all 27 EU states are united in their stance, so we need to be the same.
 
GillsBluenose said:
So are all the Protestant Loyalists suddenly going to become Republicans? Rigggggght.

For all Johnson's faults, logically he is standing up for NI as he has noticed the threats to the supply chains.

IMHO agreeing the protocol was what would have lost him and the DUP some support. Standing up to the EU when problems are starting to occur, and reiterating that the UK stands together, will probably regain some trust there.

Von der Leyen is saying that all 27 EU states are united in their stance, so we need to be the same.
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I have never suggested that Loyalists would become Republicans, nor have I even thought that. The link between Unionism in NI and their patrons has been ruptured quite possibly terminally. Johnson threw them under a bus for temporary advantage and tries to use them as a scare tactic. Catholics are now a majority the DUP is losing support from both flanks. The old calculations no longer add up

I'm no more sure than you about what happens next but blind unity behind wrongheaded politicking is no answer. We need solutions, specific, fudged, whatever works. Think the absolutist position through. The unionists take to the streets and violence makes the province ungovernable. Who then has the direct responsibility for restoring order. Do we have the will and willing manpower to enforce order. I don't believe we are going there but some seem willing to contemplate that scenario.
 
There was no underestimation. Johnson wanted the impossible and was prepared to hang NI out to dry. The EU signed up to the only agreement that Johnson would have and knew full well he would struggle to make it work without swallowing some turds. Understandably they didn't anticipate his trying to bluster through reality, pretend he hadn't realised what he had signed up to and that he was prepared to rip it up. The current stance is a bit like a dirty protest.
 
Totally disagree jogills.
The Eu side have constantly reiterated the need for peace in NI and then are overly officious in implementing their policies, full well in the knowledge that it will inevitably cause unrest and ultimately violence.
To rub salt into the wound, they then claim it’s to ensure peace.
It does appear to me that the single market is more important than lives as far as they are concerned.
You’ve got to remember that this process isn’t entirely owned by the U.K.. The Eu have their part to play.
 
jogills said:
The DUP are losing ground in every sense and the ballot box is unlikely to be their friend in the future. It's worrying but the responsibility lies with Johnson.
If Johnson and his government believe so firmly in the integrity of the UK then they aren't living up to the rhetoric and it's a fail so far. The Union looks rockier than at any time in my lifetime and we seem to be endangering it further with every passing day.
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Why are some people fixated on "all or nothing" - "The Union" or "United Ireland" ?

That wasn't the case in 1922.
In 1924 a Border Commission looked at the boundary of the new Irish Free State.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission

Unfortunately the Commission was given restrictive Terms of Reference.
It relied on dodgy data and much was done in secret.
Local plebicites were ruled out.
So it made only minor Recommendations....
.....which left thousands of people on the "wrong" side of the new border.

I'll link it again.....:oops:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau
 
shotshy said:
Totally disagree jogills.
The Eu side have constantly reiterated the need for peace in NI and then are overly officious in implementing their policies, full well in the knowledge that it will inevitably cause unrest and ultimately violence.
To rub salt into the wound, they then claim it’s to ensure peace.
It does appear to me that the single market is more important than lives as far as they are concerned.
You’ve got to remember that this process isn’t entirely owned by the U.K.. The Eu have their part to play.
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I'll try one last time. My preferred arrangements were considered unacceptable some time ago so I'm not pushing a line rather commenting on where we are. We chose this particular agreement and set of arrangements, we certainly refused all the other possibilities. We and everyone else knew what the consequences were but now we dislike them enough to want to renege. It's irrational to attempt to create some external reason for this and to seek culprits because we actively chose this path, or failed to find a more sensible one.

Some on here were gung ho for no deal. It looks to me as if the logic of endless and more expansive reiterations of sovreignty and independence mean that's what the government actually wanted, or at least where their sentiments lay. That would have been a more honest stance given what has gone on since. No one is forcing us to have a trade deal with the EU but if we want one we must be clear how it will work and be acceptable. Five years and we haven't done so.
 
mehmets_curlies said:
I would imagine he'd say that it is for the UK to sort out.
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Reckon you are right.
He’s got enough problems of his own.
When the Republicans get dragged in, it may change opinions.
It would be so much easier to adopt a common sense approach, which we all know will happen eventually.
 
shotshy said:
Reckon you are right.
He’s got enough problems of his own.
When the Republicans get dragged in, it may change opinions.
It would be so much easier to adopt a common sense approach, which we all know will happen eventually.
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I wouldn't have a clue, tbh, if he has problems of his own and I don't care, but if the UDF kicked off it is down to the UK to sort. We voted to be independent of the EU so it would be nothing to do with them. They all posturing and playing to their own audiences. Something will be agreed, but I can't see the Irish having any say in it (well, not the UK version anyway).
 
That’s the crux of the problem.
Neither negotiation team asked the people affected.
The UDF and UFF have said that they can’t see it being resolved diplomatically.
 
shotshy said:
That’s the crux of the problem.
Neither negotiation team asked the people affected.
The UDF and UFF have said that they can’t see it being resolved diplomatically.
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You could equally say that about Brexit itself. If there had been meaningful discussions with Scotland, Wales and NI and fully taken account of their views, you can bet your bottom dollar we wouldn’t be leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, the thing that’s caused all the problems for NI.
 
Therealwaldo said:
You could equally say that about Brexit itself. If there had been meaningful discussions with Scotland, Wales and NI and fully taken account of their views, you can bet your bottom dollar we wouldn’t be leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, the thing that’s caused all the problems for NI.
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Leaving the Eu, continuing to contribute financially, remaining in the CU and SM, then we may as well have just never been asked if we wanted to leave or not.
Oh! I get it now.
No democracy unless the answer suits 😂
 
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