EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

[Gills 58]

Don’t be so bloody stupid and childish.
It doesn’t suit you.

Why is that stupid and childish? You are lauding a "win" about Brexit. Who voted for Brexit to ban live animal exports? A few dozen?

How about the much bigger issue of climate change when we are desperately trying to trade more with India (Covid strains included) and the Pacific Rim rather than countries far closer. Perhaps I could call you bloody stupid.

As for local meat in Devon, see how much sells when people can get even cheaper crap from the likes of the USA and Brazil. Maybe some comfortable middle class like you and me Shotshy might buy it.

 

[jogills]

We are thanks
You continue to wallow in the fact that you were wrong.

My part in this has been marginal since 2016 and zero since the agreement was signed. I wasn't wrong and nor was anyone else.
We just had different opinions. Signed agreements belong to the signatories and come after the opinions have been aired.

NI Unionism has been abandoned and they know it. It's not a good look for those who abandoned them to try and use their threats of street violence to urge compromise. Unionism is bleeding support and the DUP stands naked with its big brother looking the other way.

 

[jogills]

I’m no fan of Johnson or the Tory party but like millions of traditional Labour voters, I understood that the Eu is not the right place for our country. Never was and never would be.
I’d be happy to take a bet that if any of the other Eu countries ever had the balls to have a vote on the subject, we wouldn’t be the only ones who’d vote to leave.

Your side won that argument and the vote, no problem with that. There are problems with this agreement and we need to stop creating enemies to blame and fight with. A good start would be to own up to reality and get back to diplomacy. We didn't realise it would be like this when we signed doesn't cut it.

 

[shotshy]

I agree absolutely.
I believe that all our government is looking for is a bit of a lighter touch.
It’s said that of all the current checks done at any Eu frontier, 20% of those are between the U.K. and NI.
There are more checks in Belfast than the super container port in Rotterdam.
It’s clearly and obviously punitive.

 

[shotshy]

So we left the EU to stop live animal exports. How noble of us. I can picture the typical Brexiteer in Stoke and Hartlepool right now thinking, thank goodness we're going to ban the export of live animals. It's what we voted for.

Happy with future animal imports to be pumped with various steroids though.

The reason that I said childish was because the only person suggesting that the majority voted to leave the EU because of live animal exports was you.

For some inexplicable reason, people who supported remaining cannot see the wood for the trees regarding the EU.
They just seem to get a free pass on subjects that you would be outraged against if it was the UK government implementing it.

Ref Seaspiricy - The European Union is not only encouraging the industrial rape of our seas, they are actually subsidising it.
Ref the CAP - 80% of the CAP budget goes to 20% of farmers who farm on an industrial scale.
Ref Frontex - Frontex turning ‘blind eye’ to human rights violations, says former deputy | Global development | The Guardian

Happy with future animal imports to be pumped with various steroids though
I'm not and never would be.

Have a good day !

 

[Gills 58]

"The reason that I said childish was because the only person suggesting that the majority voted to leave the EU because of live animal exports was you."

Er, what? You can do better than that Shotshy. Misinterpretation and twisting worthy of Johnson.

Re read the posts. I specifically stated that a few dozen would have voted Leave over the Live Exports issue. Unless the electorate in the referendum was lèss than 100, I make that a tiny minority. Ie, the opposite of claiming it was a majority.

I brought it up as you lauded it as a big win for Brexit. As it happens, I'm glad we can now ban it. It is a win. Hardly the reason the average Brexiteer voted leave as you know.

Have a nice day. Seriously.
:-)

 

[Tarian]

Big meeting in Cornwall about climate change and thanks to Brexit we are looking to import more goods half way around the world rather than from the EU. That makes sense, doesn't it. Buy local? Reduce air miles? Joke.

Not bothered about "climate change".
Far more important things to worry about - like economic recovery from OTT Covid restrictions.

Or more accurately, more bothered about the huge misallocation of time and resources wasted trying to stop natural fluctuations in climate that humans can do nothing about.

By all means stop pollution - and pursue renewable energy.

Actually I hope I live long enough to see this shown to be as much as a "crisis" as the fabled "Millenium Bug" - which turned out to be a damp squid.

As for "import more goods from the EU".
Not if they are more expensive because they are loaded with unnecessary red tape and other costs.

 

[jogills]

The reason that I said childish was because the only person suggesting that the majority voted to leave the EU because of live animal exports was you.

For some inexplicable reason, people who supported remaining cannot see the wood for the trees regarding the EU.
They just seem to get a free pass on subjects that you would be outraged against if it was the UK government implementing it.

Ref Seaspiricy - The European Union is not only encouraging the industrial rape of our seas, they are actually subsidising it.
Ref the CAP - 80% of the CAP budget goes to 20% of farmers who farm on an industrial scale.
Ref Frontex - Frontex turning ‘blind eye’ to human rights violations, says former deputy | Global development | The Guardian

Happy with future animal imports to be pumped with various steroids though
I'm not and never would be.

Have a good day !

We long ago established that there are a range of views on EU membership and that they were resolved at the ballot box. I acknowledge your passion about the marine environment and wouldn't disagree at all, the same for industrial farming subsidies and human rights violations. In short we agree and I for one have never seen the EU as some paragon of virtue opposed to nasty Britain.

I do wonder at how we influence these matters and how likely it is that we behave markedly better now that we are out but that's a detail. I still think it likely that some of us will be eating meat pumped full of steroids though its provenance may be different.

 

[GillsBluenose]

I do wonder at how we influence these matters and how likely it is that we behave markedly better now that we are out but that's a detail. I still think it likely that some of us will be eating meat pumped full of steroids though its provenance may be different.

The influencing argument was a horse that had already bolted.
UK voted against Von der Leyen's appointment
UK voted against Juncker's appointment
UK wanted a handbrake on freedom of movement of workers.
All denied

Number of member states kept growing and the smaller ones were given more influence without paying realistic subscriptions to merit that fact.

The voting shares and vetos often paralyse the EU's attempt to do anything or curb anything (hence the migration problems) - Von der Leyen admitted as much with her reference to speedboats and tankers about the vaccine ordering.

We have left the EU due to dissatisfaction but they have not taken that as an indication that they need to reform. Fair enough. The future will prove one way or the other but early signs are that our independent economy does seem to be booming as we come out of lockdown.

 

[Gills 58]

The influencing argument was a horse that had already bolted.
UK voted against Von der Leyen's appointment
UK voted against Juncker's appointment
UK wanted a handbrake on freedom of movement of workers.
All denied

Number of member states kept growing and the smaller ones were given more influence without paying realistic subscriptions to merit that fact.

The voting shares and vetos often paralyse the EU's attempt to do anything or curb anything (hence the migration problems) - Von der Leyen admitted as much with her reference to speedboats and tankers about the vaccine ordering.

We have left the EU due to dissatisfaction but they have not taken that as an indication that they need to reform. Fair enough. The future will prove one way or the other but early signs are that our independent economy does seem to be booming as we come out of lockdown.

Doh. Every economy will "boom" at least for a while, as they come out of lockdown. We have a particularly long way to climb back having sunk further than average.

No doubt there will at least be a temporary boost. Interesting to see where we are in a couple of years, after the plug is pulled on furlough.

 

[shotshy]

The influencing argument was a horse that had already bolted.
UK voted against Von der Leyen's appointment
UK voted against Juncker's appointment
UK wanted a handbrake on freedom of movement of workers.
All denied

Number of member states kept growing and the smaller ones were given more influence without paying realistic subscriptions to merit that fact.

The voting shares and vetos often paralyse the EU's attempt to do anything or curb anything (hence the migration problems) - Von der Leyen admitted as much with her reference to speedboats and tankers about the vaccine ordering.

We have left the EU due to dissatisfaction but they have not taken that as an indication that they need to reform. Fair enough. The future will prove one way or the other but early signs are that our independent economy does seem to be booming as we come out of lockdown.

That was one of the most frustrating things about the EU for me.
The equality of it.
Having to watch some little corrupt arsewipe like Muscat of Malta, bigging it up on the European stage and the halfwit from Luxembourg taking Teresa May to talk to was reason for leaving on it's own.

We were literally subsiding most of these financial backwaters and they had the temerity to lecture our Prime Ministers.

Leave them to their project.
They deserve each other.

 

[shotshy]

Doh. Every economy will "boom" at least for a while, as they come out of lockdown. We have a particularly long way to climb back having sunk further than average.

No doubt there will at least be a temporary boost. Interesting to see where we are in a couple of years, after the plug is pulled on furlough.

I reckon we'll be ok 58.
We were fortunate to start from a pretty low unemployment rate and there seems to be plenty of vacancies around.
There is down here anyway.

It will be interesting to see how end of furlough works out for some.
We was having a pint at the Yelland Brewery last Thursday with a couple who both work for a firm called Millbrook, who are the NHS contractors for mobility equipment.
He has been on furlough since March last year while she has worked right through.
He has COPD so was put off work immediately.
80% pay from the government and 20% from the firm.
She said that there is a lot of animosity towards him from the staff who have continued to work as normal.
I considered that given that he's been off for 15 months and the company doesn't appear to have missed his input, he may well have made himself irrelevant. I wouldn't be too surprised if they offered him redundancy. I think he'd jump at it. He likes not working.

 

[jogills]

The influencing argument was a horse that had already bolted.
UK voted against Von der Leyen's appointment
UK voted against Juncker's appointment
UK wanted a handbrake on freedom of movement of workers.
All denied

Number of member states kept growing and the smaller ones were given more influence without paying realistic subscriptions to merit that fact.

The voting shares and vetos often paralyse the EU's attempt to do anything or curb anything (hence the migration problems) - Von der Leyen admitted as much with her reference to speedboats and tankers about the vaccine ordering.

We have left the EU due to dissatisfaction but they have not taken that as an indication that they need to reform. Fair enough. The future will prove one way or the other but early signs are that our independent economy does seem to be booming as we come out of lockdown.

All reasonable points and I can see the merit in some but you are now literally howling into the wind. Your representatives signed an agreement thay said was wonderful, it was endorsed by all the heroes of Brexit and now we see the beginnings of just how threadbare it is. I'm not the EU, I'm not going to argue for them but if you renege on agreements then things get messy. By the way I always thought our economy would do OK, that we would survive and prosper to some extent. Who knows what the final scoreboard of pluses and minuses will be, I'll be dead before they tot them up.

Life is more complicated than it need have been and we have lost some benefits that we need not have lost. We negotiated a duff agreement because we couldn't make our minds up about what we actually wanted and settled for whatever you want we don't want it.

 

[Tarian]

..... it was endorsed by all the heroes of Brexit and now we see the beginnings of just how threadbare it is.

Plenty of proper Brexiteers did not "endorse" the W.A. - esp. the Northern Ireland protocol.....
...but as usual got little coverage to explain properly the remaining flaws.

It is true that some Brexiteers said it was "the best we are going to get"....
....given years of trench warfare from much of the UK establishment.

In pure Brexit circles, the current arrangements are seen as "mostly out, but still too many toes in."

So imperfect, but neither "endorsed" nor "threadbare".

A justified criticism is of the UK being "naive".
The UK assumed that the N.I. "checks" would be applied to the same extent as "checks" into the EU were before Brexit. i.e. no more than 1% shipments physically inspected.

But the EU seems to be insisting on its "Traffic Wardens" seeking out yellow-line offenders after midnight despite the risk of "harm" being vanishingly small !

 

[GillsBluenose]

Your representatives signed an agreement thay said was wonderful, it was endorsed by all the heroes of Brexit and now we see the beginnings of just how threadbare it is. I'm not the EU, I'm not going to argue for them but if you renege on agreements then things get messy. By the way I always thought our economy would do OK, that we would survive and prosper to some extent. Who knows what the final scoreboard of pluses and minuses will be, I'll be dead before they tot them up.
Life is more complicated than it need have been and we have lost some benefits that we need not have lost. We negotiated a duff agreement because we couldn't make our minds up about what we actually wanted and settled for whatever you want we don't want it.

How exactly is the agreement threadbare? It seems to be doing all we need it to do.
You are quite right in saying that the Tories were inferring that it is wonderful, when actually it only needs to be functional, with no unnecessary tariffs and, above all, no need to follow every EU rule and directive. That, alone, has made it worthwhile.

In the same way that the Brexit team are overstating the difference it will make, it is now quite clear that the doom mongers like Major, Heseltine and Adonis were wide of the mark about the downsides as well.

As you say, it is not good to renege on agreements, as the EU showed they were willing to do a few months ago, when it was going to suit them.

Now I see Macron is saying that NI is not really part of the UK. In that case, I hope he takes in an orange parade before he heads back home. What a simpleton.

When you say we have lost some benefits that we need not of lost, when I hear that argument and analyse it, it usually involves the single market in some way or other, and the EU will never compromise on that including free movement of workers - hence, not compatible with one of the main reasons for leaving.

 

[Tarian]

Now I see Macron is saying that NI is not really part of the UK. In that case, I hope he takes in an orange parade before he heads back home. What a simpleton.

Is.....
Catalonia part of Spain ?
Corsica part of France ?
Bavaria part of Germany ?
Basque part of France and / or Spain ?
Schleswig-Holstein part of Germany or Denmark ?
Alsace part of France or Germany

What to do about Belgium and their Walloons ?
Or the enclaves and exclaves in Belgium / Netherlands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau
(Yes. I know I keep mentioning these.....)

Not to mention a load of historical anomalies resulting from the break up of Austria-Hungary - with many communities# on the "wrong" side of borders ?
# in Bulgaria, Romania, the Balkans...

 

[jogills]

Keep in inventing enemies and arguments to battle with chaps. The room is empty.

 

[shotshy]

Keep in inventing enemies and arguments to battle with chaps. The room is empty.

Oh I don’t know
Macron is a suitable enemy.
Thatcherite right winger.
Over seven thousand comments on the lead story in the Guardian, all supporting Macron over sausagegate.
Yep. That’s right.
Over seven thousand on the left leaning Guardian backing a hard right Thatcherite.
The world is genuinely confused.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Brexit is over..

This is just a trade agreement with other nations so it is simply down to them getting their finger out and doing their job.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Not bothered about "climate change".
Far more important things to worry about - like economic recovery from OTT Covid restrictions.

Or more accurately, more bothered about the huge misallocation of time and resources wasted trying to stop natural fluctuations in climate that humans can do nothing about.

By all means stop pollution - and pursue renewable energy.

Actually I hope I live long enough to see this shown to be as much as a "crisis" as the fabled "Millenium Bug" - which turned out to be a damp squid.

As for "import more goods from the EU".
Not if they are more expensive because they are loaded with unnecessary red tape and other costs.

'a "crisis" as the fabled "Millenium Bug" - which turned out to be a damp squid'

So, because a potential risk was mitigated you think it was fantasy? Did it make you feel superior to say i told you so lol. As you know there was no such thing as a bug just simple computer code issues.

Its a bit like saying that a safety feature on a car was not required as there were no accidents since the implementation. Its what risk mitigation is.
Although a lot of work was carried out which did not need to be done and many companies were ripped off by large corporations and software houses, it is still the case that much of the success was down to the sheer amount of effort and money that was put into this effort.
Any factual evidence to the contrary would be welcome.