EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 647 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

shotshy said:
We’ve already offered a three year transition on fishing.
The Eu (France) demand the status quo under CFP or no deal on anything.
I wonder if remainers think that’s acceptable or cake and eat it ?
They seem to want to treat the U.K. as any other third country except in things they think important like fishing and security.
Click to expand...
To me, conceding on something that has minimal impact on our economy to get a tariff free deal with the EU is fine so yes I think it is acceptable, but that is because I am not nationalistic in any way nor does it bother me where our rules are made, or by who. However, I understand why getting "our waters" back is important to people.
 
I personally care little about fishing. I eat only a small amount of shell fish and our country has a small fishing industry. I no longer care to dispute the Brexit terms, it's way too late. But if independent country status, depends on control of one's own waters, then there is not a single independent country in West Africa. Their waters are systematically raped and denuded by EU, Chinese, British boats and others and locally based foreign conglomerations all of whom export a much needed food resource.
 
Fishing is not the issue in itself. It is all about the right to control which is the important principle at stake.

I would put it this way. If the EU signed a new trade deal with Russia, would they allow Putin to include clauses where they need to obtain his permission to set up an internal EU project or fund anything? Would they sell the union's independence down the river in that way?

And yet the EU expect us to have to seek their permission to provide state aid to one of our industries, even though we would have no say or vote if Germany were to seek the EU's permission to bail out Lufthansa again.

If they have no skin in the game in respect of our domestic affairs, why should we accept any limitations on our actions that they wish to stitch in to an agreement whose sole purpose is to facilitate free trade, which is in the interests of both sides?
 
mehmets_curlies said:
As I said, I hope you are right, but as we speak atm, you aren't. With this poxy virus causing all sorts of mayhem, they all need to comprimise as much as they can to help all everybody get back on their feet.
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You may be mistaken (about "aren't").

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit
Trade agreements that have been signed
Agreements with the following countries and trading blocs will take effect when the UK leaves the EU:
Mutual recognition agreements
Australia, New Zealand and United States have signed mutual recognition agreements.

Discussions with Japan on a UK-Japan MRA are ongoing. The UK and Japan have signed an exchange of letters designed to ensure the continuity of existing arrangements as a temporary measure.

A mutual recognition agreement is one in which countries recognise one another’s conformity assessments. When conformity assessments are applied to products, they are tested to an established performance standard. Inspections, quality management, surveillance, accreditation and declarations of conformity also take place."

You are right about Covid causing "mayhem"..... which may mean delays for practical reasons.
....but surely the evidence is that most non-EU countries want business-as-usual ?

And if formalities have not been signed between the UK and a.n.other country....
....does that mean that the Customs people in each country instantly demand "paperwork".
HMRC has already declared a "grace period" for EU imports - so (unless the country is very dodgy) why would we not do the same for a.n.other country ?

mehmets_curlies said:
Even if that means we concede ground on our fishing waters...imo
Click to expand...
(I may be behind on the detail.....)
My understanding was that the French wanted a permanent fishing arrangement....
....while the UK had offered a 1 year deal (with rollovers).
Can we agree that "permanent" seems unreasonable as we don't know how fish stocks will look in the future .....
....but the UK could allow more years ?
 
What Frost has offered is a three year transition period for European fishing fleets with year one giving pretty much the same access as now to give them time to adapt, as if four and a half years has not been long enough.
Year two and three would be declining access and after that, an annual negotiation.

From the EU point of view, they want things to continue exactly as they are forever or they will not agree a deal on anything else.

Seems fair ?
 
shotshy said:
What Frost has offered is a three year transition period for European fishing fleets with year one giving pretty much the same access as now to give them time to adapt, as if four and a half years has not been long enough.
Year two and three would be declining access and after that, an annual negotiation.
From the EU point of view, they want things to continue exactly as they are forever or they will not agree a deal on anything else.
Seems fair ?
Click to expand...

Could be, if they are offering fishing access to waters around the french coast or the coast of other EU countries in return, and also to provide security against the typical thuggish tactics shown by french fisherman in the past.
 
Tarian said:
You may be mistaken (about "aren't").

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit
Trade agreements that have been signed
Agreements with the following countries and trading blocs will take effect when the UK leaves the EU:
Mutual recognition agreements
Australia, New Zealand and United States have signed mutual recognition agreements.

Discussions with Japan on a UK-Japan MRA are ongoing. The UK and Japan have signed an exchange of letters designed to ensure the continuity of existing arrangements as a temporary measure.

A mutual recognition agreement is one in which countries recognise one another’s conformity assessments. When conformity assessments are applied to products, they are tested to an established performance standard. Inspections, quality management, surveillance, accreditation and declarations of conformity also take place."

You are right about Covid causing "mayhem"..... which may mean delays for practical reasons.
....but surely the evidence is that most non-EU countries want business-as-usual ?

And if formalities have not been signed between the UK and a.n.other country....
....does that mean that the Customs people in each country instantly demand "paperwork".
HMRC has already declared a "grace period" for EU imports - so (unless the country is very dodgy) why would we not do the same for a.n.other country ?


(I may be behind on the detail.....)
My understanding was that the French wanted a permanent fishing arrangement....
....while the UK had offered a 1 year deal (with rollovers).
Can we agree that "permanent" seems unreasonable as we don't know how fish stocks will look in the future .....
....but the UK could allow more years ?
Click to expand...

What % of our existing trade is covered by the newly negotiated trade agreements?
 
Trashbat said:
What % of our existing trade is covered by the newly negotiated trade agreements?
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head ..... around 2/3rds by value.
(Obviously not by "numbers" given the many small trading partners.)

Some quick and dirty amounts for you.
Exports only (imports may be higher or lower)

Some EU
Ireland £27b (historic, closest)
Netherlands £31b
Spain £15b
Poland £ 6b

non-EU agreed
Norway £ 6b
Switzerland £ 21b
Australia £ 9b
Japan £13b #
South Korea £ 6b

#Japan temporary see note in earlier post

Nothing to agree (yet)
China £17b

Surely Brexit critics/sceptics cannot persist with negative predictions ...? :oops:
 
You forgot Canada who it looks like will be signing a roll over deal to commence on the 1st Jan.
You could argue that all we are getting is what we had in the first place via the Eu, but, without the political bollax that’s currently attached to it.
I think we’ll eventually end up with multiple deals all over the world, including the Eu and USA.
I also think the U.K. will prosper without the interference we now have to endure.

We all know that we do not need a trade deal to trade, but it certainly doesn’t hinder the situation.
 
Wtf at
Tarian said:
You may be mistaken (about "aren't").

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit
Trade agreements that have been signed
Agreements with the following countries and trading blocs will take effect when the UK leaves the EU:
Mutual recognition agreements
Australia, New Zealand and United States have signed mutual recognition agreements.

Discussions with Japan on a UK-Japan MRA are ongoing. The UK and Japan have signed an exchange of letters designed to ensure the continuity of existing arrangements as a temporary measure.

A mutual recognition agreement is one in which countries recognise one another’s conformity assessments. When conformity assessments are applied to products, they are tested to an established performance standard. Inspections, quality management, surveillance, accreditation and declarations of conformity also take place."

You are right about Covid causing "mayhem"..... which may mean delays for practical reasons.
....but surely the evidence is that most non-EU countries want business-as-usual ?

And if formalities have not been signed between the UK and a.n.other country....
....does that mean that the Customs people in each country instantly demand "paperwork".
HMRC has already declared a "grace period" for EU imports - so (unless the country is very dodgy) why would we not do the same for a.n.other country ?


(I may be behind on the detail.....)
My understanding was that the French wanted a permanent fishing arrangement....
....while the UK had offered a 1 year deal (with rollovers).
Can we agree that "permanent" seems unreasonable as we don't know how fish stocks will look in the future .....
....but the UK could allow more years ?
Click to expand...
I am not mistaken as we haven't rolled out all of the EU deals. We might do, but if we don't we will have to trade with those countries under WTO terms. We may well have all of those agreements in place by the end of the year, but we haven't yet. Hence why I put "atm".
As for the fisheries, I haven't commented on any details as, tbh, I don't know them, but if letting the status quo remain with regards to fisheries means we have a tariff free trade deal, then that would be fine by me. I appreciate that others would want to go to war over it, but I think it isn't significant enough to worry about in the grand scheme of things
 
mehmets_curlies said:
Wtf at
I am not mistaken as we haven't rolled out all of the EU deals. We might do, but if we don't we will have to trade with those countries under WTO terms. We may well have all of those agreements in place by the end of the year, but we haven't yet. Hence why I put "atm".
As for the fisheries, I haven't commented on any details as, tbh, I don't know them, but if letting the status quo remain with regards to fisheries means we have a tariff free trade deal, then that would be fine by me. I appreciate that others would want to go to war over it, but I think it isn't significant enough to worry about in the grand scheme of things
Click to expand...
It is if you are a fisherman 😉
The fishing community may not give a toss about the business you are involved in.
 
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/what-is-going-on-with-brexit-negotiations-236858/

Very good confirmation in this article of the reason for the differences:
"The crux of the disagreement seems to remain around the UK wanting to be treated as a separate and independent country, while the EU does not want the current relationship to change*"

*even though the UK will have no say and no control over EU matters or decisions going forward. Fair?
 
GillsBluenose said:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/what-is-going-on-with-brexit-negotiations-236858/

Very good confirmation in this article of the reason for the differences:
"The crux of the disagreement seems to remain around the UK wanting to be treated as a separate and independent country, while the EU does not want the current relationship to change*"

*even though the UK will have no say and no control over EU matters or decisions going forward. Fair?
Click to expand...
You are over reacting.
I was reading yesterday that the Eu are prepared to be flexible and are happy to agree that the U.K. should be allowed to keep more fish caught in our territorial waters.
How very kind of them 👍
 
Why are we still negotiating if they are so beastly to us and what they offer is so bad?

Johnson set a deadline a couple of weeks ago so why is this going on? Is it possible that they think he doesn't mean what he says?

Why don't we just have the "oven ready deal" that he said we've already agreed?
 
You’re being deliberately obtuse 58.
Everyone knows that the oven ready deal dealt with the WA not any trade agreement.
Everyone it seems except for those who cannot bring themselves to support their own country.
There was once a term for those who actively supported the other side.
Just saying.
 
Remember old Liam Fox saying the Brexit trade deal with the EU would be the "easiest in history". Well maybe it is, in which case I would hate to see a difficult one.
 
shotshy said:
You’re being deliberately obtuse 58.
Everyone knows that the oven ready deal dealt with the WA not any trade agreement.
Everyone it seems except for those who cannot bring themselves to support their own country.
There was once a term for those who actively supported the other side.
Just saying.
Click to expand...
Perhaps supporting the other side will give the best outcome for our side?
 
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