EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 269 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

valenciagill

Vital 1st Team Regular
(Surely off-topic but ....?)

Surely the difference is .....
There is little evidence of Catholic paedophile priests getting together and "sharing round" their victims.
By contrast, there does appear to be evidence of perpetrators, mostly of Pakistani origins meeting each other and "sharing around" victims
??

Maajid Nawaz has no problem with noting that their appears to be a CULTURAL problem (not race or religion) with SOME Pakistanis from a particular region or social grouping - quite distinct from Pakistanis in general - or from Muslims in general.

Yet some posters here (and elsewhere) seem more interested in closing down understanding that might benefit VICTIMS.
So they use unfounded or generalised accusations of "waycism" - which has the effect of providing a shield for PERPETRATORS.

p.s. What has this got to do with Brexit ?
What's it got to do with brexit ?
If Merkel hadn't let in over a million undocumented Muslims , there probably wouldn't have been a vote for leave !
 

Tarian

Vital Youth Team
Germany has no problem with free movement of EU citizens .....
It's not the "free movement" that people have a problem with.
It's when people STOP moving - i.e. settle in a country - in millions - pushing up house prices, pressuring public services and transport.

Historically, Germany's population is much more evenly spread, north, south etc - and density is much less than the UK.

But WK .... "Germany has no problem ...." may be wrong anyway.
Increasing numbers of Germans believe that migration numbers should be limited.
 

jogills

Vital Squad Member
'Is there seriously anybody, who believes that the grooming and abuse of vulnerable girls and young women began with muslims in this country'

Yes , type 1 grooming gangs they are called.
Type 2 grooming gangs tend to include perpetrators of all backgrounds , but Type 1 is mainly Islamic.
Your argument is circular and irrational and begins with an erronoeus assertion. This Type 1 stuff is a new form of words to describe an old problem. If you wish to use that term do not think it then proves a case. By this definition Type 1 grooming gags have been recruiting young girls for prostitution for centuries.

My late father was a great lover of racial stereotyping and would often talk of Maltese pimps abusing English girls to recruit them. The papers at that time revelled in such stuff. The Maltese were not the first and will not be the last.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messina_Brothers

Meanwhile British gangs have always been involved in the trade doing their unpleasant work and only coming surfacing when individual cases were prosecuted. No one ever called them Christian, or white. I have no interest in doing so but can you imagine if I relentlessly scoured the news in order to record every sexual crime committed by a white person and then posted it up here complaining that the media weren't joining the dots.

There is ample evidence that priests operated in an organised way and shared victims over many years. You only have to look at the latest revelation of priests controlling a whole institution of nuns for virtual sexual slavery to understand the organisation of evil. Human beings are capable of extreme depravity regardless of race, class, ethnicity, or religion.

No one pretends that we do not have much work to do on the attitudes and behaviour of some muslim men towards women and girls. If we seek to blame the entire problem of abuse on them we protect a whole army of other abusers and desert their victims.
 

Tarian

Vital Youth Team
I have a genuine question: Despite not wanting to leave the EU myself, I do actually agree that, because of the vote, the UK will need to leave - and not just in name only (although how this can be done without there needing to be a border between the UK and Ireland seems pretty insoluble - besides the point here).
But, if a no-deal situation is to happen, can someone explain the seemingly fanatical devotion to the idea that it cannot be delayed even for a moment; whether or not the physical infrastructure, staff, IT systems, 'replacement' trade agreements with non-EU countries etc. are actually in place?
PA. Thank you for your questions

1) Irish border.
Why do you think there "needs" to be a so-called "hard" border?
With the Govts of UK, RoI and the EU all saying they oppose a "hard" border ...
... "who" is going to build border posts ... and "why" ?

The Norway / Sweden border provides an example of dozens of unmanned border crossings (plenty of articles about it)

Borders generally
The idea that WTO terms means a country "must" check all shipments is nonsense.
Each country can choose to inspect as many or as few shipments as it wants.

And the bosses of HMRC, Dover and Calais Ports - the Mayors of Calais, and Pas-de-Calais Region have all said they plan "no additional checks" on UK/EU shipments.

So where are these delays going to come from ?
Can someone name the the UK Minister who plans to delay medicines or food ?

which leads to ....
2) " the idea that (Brexit) cannot be delayed ........ whether or not the physical infrastructure .....(etc) is in place"

Two main answers - one on "border infrastructure" - the other on tariffs

Why is more infrastructure "needed" ?
i) Currently, inspections are mostly from 1% to 3% of shipments, depending on origin - so not inspecting is the default.

ii) As above, "who" is going to make additional border checks - and "why" ?
(There is no "must" about checks)

iii) If anyone does propose additional checks, increasingly inspections are done away from borders - either at inland customs facilities - or at destinations.

ZERO tariffs can continue - under WTO Article 24 (b) (c) - for up to 10 years - while UK/EU negotiations continue.

In short:
- WTO is familiar to HMRC and many businesses - so no surprises and no "cliff-edges". :yes:

- WTO Art. 24 allows for "business-as-usual" :yes:

So where is the need to delay Brexit ?
 

Therealwaldo

Vital Squad Member
Tarian, the Norway Sweden border is hardly a workable example as there is regulatory alignment between Norway and Sweden. Why do you persist in ignoring obvious and verifiable facts ?

There are plenty of experts including those who actually work for the WTO that have pointed out that Article 24 has never been intended to allow tariffs to be set aside why you try to sort out a trade deal. It was intended to be a very temporary measure that would enable an already agreed trade deal to be implemented before full sign off.

On immigration, study after study has shown that immigrants come to work. If they come from within the EU we can send them back if they are not in employment within 6 months. A rule we have never taken advantage of. If there is work immigrants will come, without work they won't.
 
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Wayne.Kerr

Vital Football Hero
'Is there seriously anybody, who believes that the grooming and abuse of vulnerable girls and young women began with muslims in this country'

Yes , type 1 grooming gangs they are called.
Type 2 grooming gangs tend to include perpetrators of all backgrounds , but Type 1 is mainly Islamic.
Mental racist! Type 1 is Gel Boy's racist definition
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Football Hero
How many people is "too many" ?
70 million, 80 million ?

When should this population Ponzi scheme end ?
Although the birthrate in the UK is falling, which doesn't auger well for the future as the population ages, at around 750,000 pa it won't take long to reach 70 or 80 million unless, of course, you'd like to introduce euthanasia or enforced sterilisation. No doubt those numbers will come from immigrants rather than the indigenous population. In post-Brexit UK, it is recognised that immigration will persist but, instead of being mainly from the EU, who are significantly transient, many will come from the Commonwealth and will sue to stay in the UK once here.
 

valenciagill

Vital 1st Team Regular
Your argument is circular and irrational and begins with an erronoeus assertion. This Type 1 stuff is a new form of words to describe an old problem. If you wish to use that term do not think it then proves a case. By this definition Type 1 grooming gags have been recruiting young girls for prostitution for centuries.

My late father was a great lover of racial stereotyping and would often talk of Maltese pimps abusing English girls to recruit them. The papers at that time revelled in such stuff. The Maltese were not the first and will not be the last.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messina_Brothers

Meanwhile British gangs have always been involved in the trade doing their unpleasant work and only coming surfacing when individual cases were prosecuted. No one ever called them Christian, or white. I have no interest in doing so but can you imagine if I relentlessly scoured the news in order to record every sexual crime committed by a white person and then posted it up here complaining that the media weren't joining the dots.

There is ample evidence that priests operated in an organised way and shared victims over many years. You only have to look at the latest revelation of priests controlling a whole institution of nuns for virtual sexual slavery to understand the organisation of evil. Human beings are capable of extreme depravity regardless of race, class, ethnicity, or religion.

No one pretends that we do not have much work to do on the attitudes and behaviour of some muslim men towards women and girls. If we seek to blame the entire problem of abuse on them we protect a whole army of other abusers and desert their victims.
'By this definition Type 1 grooming gags have been recruiting young girls for prostitution for centuries'

That's not true , these organised crimes committed by (mostly) Islamic gangs commenced in the 1970's.
Shared around amongst brothers , cousins , any male they knew ?
Previous criminal trials , also show us that they are racially/religiously aggravated ,with what was said to the victims , and the torture they suffered.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Football Hero
'By this definition Type 1 grooming gags have been recruiting young girls for prostitution for centuries'

That's not true , these organised crimes committed by (mostly) Islamic gangs commenced in the 1970's.
Shared around amongst brothers , cousins , any male they knew ?
Previous criminal trials , also show us that they are racially/religiously aggravated ,with what was said to the victims , and the torture they suffered.
Next you'll be saying the world was created 5,000 years ago.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
Will be interesting to see Q1 growth figures. I think we might see a big drop in growth.

Many financial services companies have already made preparations for Brexit. Since 1 Jan 2019, pretty much all EEA risks have been underwritten in Lloyd’s Brussels and reinsured back to legal entities in Dublin. Much of this hasn’t been reported in the press. In addition, we’ve already seen billions of pounds of capital moved outside of the UK as a direct consequence of Brexit.

Let see the Q1 figures.
Well - growth for Dec was slowest since 2012 - partly because of Brexit.

I’m expecting Q1 to be worse!
 

Tarian

Vital Youth Team
Tarian, the Norway Sweden border is hardly a workable example as there is regulatory alignment between Norway and Sweden. Why do persist in ignoring obvious and verifiable facts ?
"Facts" are the Leavers friend. By contrast, Remainers lead with doom-laden crystal-ball gazing.

How much "regulatory alignment" do you think exists ?
Norway has adopted approx 6,200 of the Single Markets 22,000 laws - or about 28%.
In simple terms, Norway has adopted over 95% of the cross-border trade laws - but not the interfering internal laws.

Why can't you accept that over a decade ago, two friendly neighbours agreed border arrangements - which included pre-registration of shipments (now on-line) many unmanned borders and close-co-operation between Customs Officials?

Lastly, if "regulatory alignment" was complete - why is smuggling an issue ?


..... Article 24 has never been intended to allow tariffs to be set aside why you try to sort out a trade deal. It was intended to be a very temporary measure that would enable an already agree trade deal to be implemented before full sign off.
Art.24, does not mention "setting aside" tariffs - but it clearly says
"duties and other regulations of commerce ...... shall not be higher or more restrictive".
So with tariffs currently Zero - they wouldn't be "higher"?

So with para (b) saying Art 24 is for:
"the adoption of an interim agreement necessary for the formation of ........ a free-trade area;" ....
How is that not "while you try to sort out a trade deal"?

Art.24 describes "interim period" (not "temporary") as follows:
(c) any interim agreement .......shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of ..... such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time."

3. The “reasonable length of time” referred to in paragraph 5(c) of Article XXIV should exceed 10 years only in exceptional cases."

On immigration, study after study has shown that immigrants come to work.
"come to work" is a strawman.
The vast majority of Leaver accept that EU migrants are "hard working".
So the "6 months rule" is rarely relevant.

The problem is that millions have to live somewhere - and use public services and transport.

"Study after study" focuses on migrants' tax paid versus welfare benefits received.
It would be unremarkable if (say) 250,000 million well paid EU bankers, lawyers etc paid more tax than the benefits received by the poorest 1 million.
(We know that the top 1% of UK earners pay over 28% of income tax)

But please name a study that included the higher cost of housing - affecting the lowest paid the most - anything from £1,000 to £5,000 p.a. (depending on area).
Thank you.
 
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Tarian

Vital Youth Team
That article is just another list of "worst case scenarios" being treated by pessimistic Remainers as near "certainties".

And some don't even stand up to scrutiny e.g.
Guardian:>
" under the worst case no-deal scenario, GDP would be 10.7% lower than if the UK stays in the EU, in 15 years "
A) Immigration should normally increase GDP (but not GDP per head) - so if EU migration reduces, then it follows that GDP should grow less fast.
B) "over 15 years"
C) Is this the "worst case scenario" where the UK agrees no Free Trade Deals - so trade volumes reduce?

.... and a series of deceptions/deflections about WTO and the apparently impossible rollover of existing Trade Agreements.


I would not rule out the possibility of people in offices being stumped by new or mis-information about on-line pre-registration ....
..... but the idea that Dover officials "must" delay thousands of lorries is fanciful.
 

Tarian

Vital Youth Team
Well - growth for Dec was slowest since 2012 - partly because of Brexit.

I’m expecting Q1 to be worse!
Worldwide, growth is expected to slow - mainly in China.....
Italy is already in recession - and France, Germany on the brink.....

... but that won't stop whinging Remainers claiming Brexit as the primary cause.

(Apparently the USA is predicted to retain solid growth - "despite Trump".)
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Football Hero
Worldwide, growth is expected to slow - mainly in China.....
Italy is already in recession - and France, Germany on the brink.....

... but that won't stop whinging Remainers claiming Brexit as the primary cause.

(Apparently the USA is predicted to retain solid growth - "despite Trump".)
Brexit hasn't happened so it can't be blamed but it's certainly led to uncertainty especially among investors - Nissan for example. The worldwide lowdown in growth could well lead to protectionism and trade wars, which augurs well for little Great Britain going it alone. As for the USA, Trump will only oblige if it suits him and will certainly put America first and continue to reduce imports.