EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 156 | Vital Forums

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

Wayne.Kerr

Vital 1st Team Regular
Someone said to me last night that that the mistake was the referendum itself. He is a barrister and didn't give any indication of his views but simply remarked that you should never ask a question you don't know the answer to. We were in the Tavern at Lords and matters soon turned to cricket mainly because no-one had really heard of GFC
 

Therealwaldo

Vital Reserves Team
Gills58, I’ve no idea. The problem is that logic and facts have sometimes been no match for sentiment and gut feeling. That’s sad because if we can’t rely on facts and evidence we are indeed doomed.
 

chris who

Vital Squad Member
The real problem is that Brexit is something that cannot be delivered without breaking up the union
The Irish (and Scottish if need be question)should have been worked on before article 50 was signed .That was always going to be the biggest sticking point.If brexit does break up the union then that should have been agreed before the whole thing was triggered.
 

shotshy

Vital Reserves Team
And possibly starting the break up of the EU. There's a great deal at stake across the Channel too.
Don't start with all that fake news jokerman.
There have been no riots in Athens and Paris.
All member states are in full agreement about immigration.
Macron is actually the god Jupiter.
Merkel is still really in charge.
Everything is just tickerty boo in the Utopian paradise of Europe.
 

chris who

Vital Squad Member
Someone said to me last night that that the mistake was the referendum itself. He is a barrister and didn't give any indication of his views but simply remarked that you should never ask a question you don't know the answer to. We were in the Tavern at Lords and matters soon turned to cricket mainly because no-one had really heard of GFC
Totally agree with the barrister.The referendum was a daft idea .Given the government and opposition were against it .Both believe it is bad for the country. Brexit was won by leave because they said they wanted to bring back power to Westminster. Their first major act will probably be to act in a way they feel is wrong and bad for the country. What sort of power is that?
 

shotshy

Vital Reserves Team
Someone said to me last night that that the mistake was the referendum itself. He is a barrister and didn't give any indication of his views but simply remarked that you should never ask a question you don't know the answer to. We were in the Tavern at Lords and matters soon turned to cricket mainly because no-one had really heard of GFC
The problem back in 2016 Wayne was that they thought that they did know the answer to it.
They had just scared the Scots s*itless with a barrage of Project Fear and wrongly assumed that the English suckers would fall for the same bulls*it.
Even now, there is very little positive stories coming out about why we should remain, if given another vote.
Just the same old stuff about the end of the world should we once again vote to leave.
You would think that after 40+ years of membership they could find a few positive stories to write about.
You know, some specifics.
It's great to be a member of the EU because …..

It's a tough gig because many who were totally disinterested before have woken up.
 

chris who

Vital Squad Member
Had Mrs Thatcher put a football ban to the vote in the days after on of the big battles on the terraces of the 1980s there is a fair chance that football could have had great trouble getting anywhere near 50% support of the country.
 

MedwayModernist

Vital Reserves Team
The problem back in 2016 Wayne was that they thought that they did know the answer to it.
They had just scared the Scots s*itless with a barrage of Project Fear and wrongly assumed that the English suckers would fall for the same bulls*it.
Even now, there is very little positive stories coming out about why we should remain, if given another vote.
Just the same old stuff about the end of the world should we once again vote to leave.
You would think that after 40+ years of membership they could find a few positive stories to write about.
You know, some specifics.
It's great to be a member of the EU because …..

It's a tough gig because many who were totally disinterested before have woken up.
Idiot - this is why referendums shouldn't happen
 

Vambogills

Vital Squad Member
The problem back in 2016 Wayne was that they thought that they did know the answer to it.
They had just scared the Scots s*itless with a barrage of Project Fear and wrongly assumed that the English suckers would fall for the same bulls*it.
Even now, there is very little positive stories coming out about why we should remain, if given another vote.
Just the same old stuff about the end of the world should we once again vote to leave.
You would think that after 40+ years of membership they could find a few positive stories to write about.
You know, some specifics.
It's great to be a member of the EU because...
Just in case the last bit wasn't a whoosh here's a random ten...

1/. It supports millions of UK jobs and has attracted huge global investment from countries like Japan who set up factories in the UK to export into the EU.
2/. UK based companies can trade simply with every EU country with just one agreement.
3/. We can all travel freely to all EU countries.
4/. It has improved workers rights.
5/. It has lowered mobile phone bills
6/. The NHS and our service sector benefit from the easy recruitment of an EU pool of workers.
7/. It has helped peace between EU countries.
8/. It has EU wide counter terrorism agreements.
9/. It has more clout to deal with or stand up to Russia, China and other BRICK economy countries
10/. We are better off working on the inside to improve it rather than looking on powerless from the outside.
 

jogills

Vital Squad Member
The problem back in 2016 Wayne was that they thought that they did know the answer to it.
They had just scared the Scots s*itless with a barrage of Project Fear and wrongly assumed that the English suckers would fall for the same bulls*it.
Even now, there is very little positive stories coming out about why we should remain, if given another vote.
Just the same old stuff about the end of the world should we once again vote to leave.
You would think that after 40+ years of membership they could find a few positive stories to write about.
You know, some specifics.
It's great to be a member of the EU because …..

It's a tough gig because many who were totally disinterested before have woken up.
That may be shotshy but equally forty odd years of relentless evangelical politicking from the full breakfast Brexiteers have failed to provide a blueprint, or even a coherent set of demands. It's a virtual debate on both sides.

Talking of waking up it also appears that a significant overall majority in NI, including 20% of DUP voters, favour remaining in a customs union. They favour trade, jobs and the economy over anything and everything. Priti Patel and co meanwhile think that if it means harder times in NI then they should suck it up.

Too many simple solutions offered, which disappeared in the first breeze, now we can't cobble a complex one together. I've ceased even viewing it as two sides and am struggling to imagine any outcome, which pleases even 50% and might work. Ho hum.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Reserves Team
Are you one of the "liars" that Jerryattrick refers to Waldo? I think I'm one of them. I'd like to know when I've lied so I can apologise and correct myself.
Apologies for lack of clarity. I thought it was clear that I was referring to politicians and the media. Both sides have told either lies, or half truths through soundbites. There are more actual facts on this thread than in most of the parliamentary discussions.

Both sides originally decided on propaganda instead of facts and debate and therefore the referendum should never have happened or been delayed until voters had been given more information.
But the referendum did go ahead (I was for remain) and everyone should have moved forward together to make the most of it. Instead we have just had the same misinformation and intransigence on both sides.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital 1st Team Regular
For forty plus years successive UK governments have blamed the EU for their own faults. A large number of EU regulations were proposed by the UK yet somehow leavers manage to absolve our government of any responsibility.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital Reserves Team
For forty plus years successive UK governments have blamed the EU for their own faults. A large number of EU regulations were proposed by the UK yet somehow leavers manage to absolve our government of any responsibility.
Exactly. Heard Blair the other day explaining that many laws including the latest expansion were pushed for by the UK.
 

Gills 58

Vital Reserves Team
Apologies for lack of clarity. I thought it was clear that I was referring to politicians and the media. Both sides have told either lies, or half truths through soundbites. There are more actual facts on this thread than in most of the parliamentary discussions.

Both sides originally decided on propaganda instead of facts and debate and therefore the referendum should never have happened or been delayed until voters had been given more information.
But the referendum did go ahead (I was for remain) and everyone should have moved forward together to make the most of it. Instead we have just had the same misinformation and intransigence on both sides.
Accepted Jerry, thanks.
 

Therealwaldo

Vital Reserves Team
The best comment came from a Norwegian politician who was asked what they thought of the U.K. joining the EFTA along with Norway. She said she wouldn't want us to join and mess things up for them like we have for ourselves.