EU stay or go ? | Page 62 | Vital Football

EU stay or go ?

How can we have an understanding of the ramifications when phase 2 of the talks have not even started ?

Phase 1 has not been confirmed yet and that is a preliminary phase.

The indications are that little will change and it will be gradual.

The stance shown by the EU leaders has been sadly one tracked. The divorce bill. Now that has been semi agreed they are slightly more open to discussion. Their attitude has been unsavoury which will not have gone un-noticed by brexit voters. The polls show little change in opinion and as agreements filter through on trade and movement of labour it could start changing remoaners thoughts.
 
change has been gradual so far as UK are still in EU (apart from the 20% fall in the nation's wealth due to the pound's fall). the EU27 has conceded very little because it doesnt have to do anything else.... the UK is now like a flailing sardine hooked onto line, all the EU have to do is to wind it in each time it strays in the wrong direction, its beginning to look painful to even watch.

Phase2 (thanks to Davies' inane posturing about agreement on Phase1 merely being a 'statement of intent' and now backtracking desperately) has only made the EU27 now demand that agreements become legally binding before Phase2 is even discussed within the EU27 itself, never mind then with the UK.

but then theres always Trump's America to come to the Tories and dear Merry Ole Englands rescue... as highlighted again last week.

its gonna be a Turkey-shoot.
 
A union causing pain because it can is not worthy to be part of. We have to recognise we are not a big player in the world and cut our cloth accordingly. Live within our means independently and look after ourselves.

We are a small nation with plenty of resources to support a sensible level of population. We need some identity and pride.
 
Problem is our we currently don't have a sensible level of population as successive governments have failed miserably to invest in the appropriate infrastructure to support its growing demands.

I said once before we and Germany have double the number of people per square mile than France. So for example if they had taken a fairer share of imigrants, and embraced a few more people to balance the act then maybe the immigration issue would have not been so strong in determining our referendum leave decision!

Will leaving cap the population or will we still head for 70 million?
 
Not having open borders will allow more control. Every remoaner seems more interested in money. I would rather preserve our Country, independence and identity .
 
no open-borders will be in name only.

there will still be a massive need for mainly unskilled but still diligent workers in this country that the native population simply cannot provide, all the main economic sectors eg. construction, healthcare to retail are now beginning to shout from the rooftops... more than half the current intake levels will still be maintained for a long long time..

another irony is that the typical E.European migrant is very much of a similar cultural and even prejudicial mindset to many that voted Leave... very culturally conservative, strongly Christian and anti-Islam.your natural bedfellows against the millions of Asian, non-Christian hordes you see as your natural enemy.

 
The more this goes on, the more it's all being exposed as the bollocks it was. An epic tantrum and a mad scramble to try and justify it and minimise the damage, while still trying to convince everyone it was the right decision.

It really is pathetic.
 
Plenty O'Tool - 13/12/2017 15:22

no open-borders will be in name only.

there will still be a massive need for mainly unskilled but still diligent workers in this country that the native population simply cannot provide, all the main economic sectors eg. construction, healthcare to retail are now beginning to shout from the rooftops... more than half the current intake levels will still be maintained for a long long time..

another irony is that the typical E.European migrant is very much of a similar cultural and even prejudicial mindset to many that voted Leave... very culturally conservative, strongly Christian and anti-Islam.your natural bedfellows against the millions of Asian, non-Christian hordes you see as your natural enemy.
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Just out of interest where are the unskilled workers being utilized?
 
80deg16minW - 14/12/2017 13:30

Plenty O'Tool - 13/12/2017 15:22

no open-borders will be in name only.

there will still be a massive need for mainly unskilled but still diligent workers in this country that the native population simply cannot provide, all the main economic sectors eg. construction, healthcare to retail are now beginning to shout from the rooftops... more than half the current intake levels will still be maintained for a long long time..

another irony is that the typical E.European migrant is very much of a similar cultural and even prejudicial mindset to many that voted Leave... very culturally conservative, strongly Christian and anti-Islam.your natural bedfellows against the millions of Asian, non-Christian hordes you see as your natural enemy.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest where are the unskilled workers being utilized?
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the clue's in the 1st para - you can also add the hospitality sector to an evergrowing list.
 
Nick Real Deal - 14/12/2017 18:50

Why can't our native population do unskilled but dilgent work ?
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either so naive or so ill-informed lol

why not research what UK construction companies, hoteliers, caterers, retailers, care-homes, hospitals and clinics are saying about it, up and down the country.
 
Interesting discussion this morning separating the dynamics of the transition negotiations vs the trade negotiations which will now begin in earnest.

General consensus was that the UK will be in a much stronger position in trade negotiations than they were during the transition negotiations.
 
Plenty O'Tool - 14/12/2017 15:54

80deg16minW - 14/12/2017 13:30

Plenty O'Tool - 13/12/2017 15:22

no open-borders will be in name only.

there will still be a massive need for mainly unskilled but still diligent workers in this country that the native population simply cannot provide, all the main economic sectors eg. construction, healthcare to retail are now beginning to shout from the rooftops... more than half the current intake levels will still be maintained for a long long time..

another irony is that the typical E.European migrant is very much of a similar cultural and even prejudicial mindset to many that voted Leave... very culturally conservative, strongly Christian and anti-Islam.your natural bedfellows against the millions of Asian, non-Christian hordes you see as your natural enemy.
Click to expand...

Just out of interest where are the unskilled workers being utilized?
Click to expand...

the clue's in the 1st para - you can also add the hospitality sector to an evergrowing list.
Click to expand...


Yeah. Read that. You didn’t answer the question. Where are the unskilled workers that are available and want to work being drawn to.
 
'than they WERE in transition negotiations' ??

this is news to us in the UK (and EU27); when the transition-talks have not begun yet.

how was this transition agreed upon exactly, when the text on the divorce itself has not even been drafted that is legally binding, and the subsequent agreement by the Council of Ministers is yet to be made ?

1st the text on divorce has to be drafted that will not allow UK to backslide without severe consequences has to be agreed and signed-off by all. Then the transition-arrangements (if 1 is allowed) will have to be negotiated and ratified by all 28 countries.

then and only then, will the trade-talks even commence and not a moment before.

 
80deg16minW - 15/12/2017 13:08



Yeah. Read that. You didn’t answer the question. Where are the unskilled workers that are available and want to work being drawn to.
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my point is that there are not nearly enough of the native-unskilled to meet the criteria of diligence, reliability and work-ethic, that will also accept v.low wages, even less job-security and little chance to allow them the dream of working towards a better life in the future.

overseas unskilled workers tend to put up with alot here, as they hold that dream of returning home with a capital nest-egg in hard-currency that goes much further in their homeland and that will help set them up to progress in business/work on their return.
 
The optimistic answer to that would be that a worker shortage would force companies to improve their employment packages to tempt people into jobs.

The realistic answer is that the tories will tear up existing employment laws to allow companies to get away with paying less and offering less security, while using their media arm to further demonise 'shirkers' and taking away benefits to force people to take jobs.
 
ahx00 - 15/12/2017 13:38

The optimistic answer to that would be that a worker shortage would force companies to improve their employment packages to tempt people into jobs.

The realistic answer is that the tories will tear up existing employment laws to allow companies to get away with paying less and offering less security, while using their media arm to further demonise 'shirkers' and taking away benefits to force people to take jobs.
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That is likely the most accurate description but with the global trend toward a living wage environment you may end up with a reasonable compromise and decreased unemployment. On the other hand the transaction based jobs are evaporating.

The "experience" based jobs are requiring more highly trained individuals, even if it is in human relations....hospitality, retail. That will fall on the companies and that training will become part of their competitive advantage. The UK is a top destination. For many reasons. I am driving a certain group I am working with mental trying to get them to move into the UK market now and establish a presence. I see significant opportunities. As I do with NAFTA blowing up.

 
the true EU is now the Eurozone (always has been perhaps).

expect it sooner than you think to flirt with possibility of national/regional Basic Universal Incomes (irrespective of voluntary employment status )

as for the legion of highly-trained in Hospitality and Retail its doubtful, when the main drivers are low-costs and minimal job-security, employment benefits - a totally conceptual oxymoron.
 
ahx00 - 15/12/2017 13:38

The optimistic answer to that would be that a worker shortage would force companies to improve their employment packages to tempt people into jobs.

The realistic answer is that the tories will tear up existing employment laws to allow companies to get away with paying less and offering less security, while using their media arm to further demonise 'shirkers' and taking away benefits to force people to take jobs.
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The single biggest impact on the unskilled/semi-skilled labour market was Labour under Blair and Brown, who in Mandelson's words in response to big businesses demand for more cheap labour 'went around the World and around Europe, scouping up any groups that we could' - and as it turned out irrespective of the social impact on infrastrcture and/or public services. Of course once the impact wa sbeing felt that started chucking money at local givernment and out-sources - but by then it was too little too late - and as in any project irrespective of size, if you go into it completely un prepared, don't be surprised when it not only screws up the project aims, but shreds the fabric around it.

During their tenure the populaton increased by 6 million - the single biggest increase in 10 lifetimes. The tories have had to deal with ALL teh consequences of the social and public service mess they left behind - including the £10 billion mess they caused in their 'digital leap' in health services that has left a destructuve trail behind it ever since.

We are currently at a historic all time high for employment levels, but that is going to change; AI, Robotics and automation generally are going to turn parts of the economy unside down - the BOE believe it will cost 15 millon low-paid, low/semi skilled jobs, I think over the next 15 years the loss of jobs like these will be even higher.

AI and deep learning are making huge leaps in almost every sector, but now including helathcare and diagnostics, predictive demand and consumption models and of course the general way we will live our lives - it is these factors that will mean that old employment laws and models will have to be ripped apart if we are to try and remain competitive as a nation - if we rely on old social economic thinking and models, we will be finished and end up a backwater - just as much of the EU will soon be given their social economic model that will continue to drive up underlying unemployment amongst the young and extending vast over-spend they cannot afford on late-life benefits.

The very nature of employment will change, because it has to.
 
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