England Cricket
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SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
Is this actually confirmed yet? So far, I've only seen ths confirmed in the Guardian that they "understand" this to be the case and it's from their questionable cricket journo, Jonatham Liew, who have seemed to be a bit obsessed with pushing this story over the past few days. I hope it is on somewhere regardless as as it stands no one has got live coverage.
Great news. Cricket took the King's shilling and grabbed money from Sky. As a result, imo, many children are not seeing cricket as it's not on terrestrual TV. Sad to say, many clubs are now dying out.I know that one or two follow England Cricket. It has just been announced that the India series is to be shown live on Channel 4. First test begins this friday at 4.00am.
Yes, I know Sky apparently do a good job and dwindling interest in cricket may not be all down to TV deals but at grass roots level it is in big trouble.
At the (low level) I play we rely on Asian players to keep the club afloat. Fewer white kids and virtually no black kids any more.
Medway Modernist, how is it for your club?
You love it.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
It's an interesting debate. No one can argue that the 2005 Ashes win, shown on terrestrial TV (the last test series to be done so) was the talk of that summer and must have got lots of youngsters and people previously not interested in cricket into it. However, equally terrestrial TV in the past 15 years have shown little or no interest in cricket and, even when they did show cricket 15+ years ago, they disrespected it by continually cutting coverage for other things, like irrelevant horse races - C4 even change the start time to 1030 as not to clash with hollyoaks! Had the game been left to C4 and the BBC, it would have probably gone bust and numerous counties would have gone out of business and our national team would probably be in the mess that the Windies, South Africa and others are, as they have run out of money and play in front of empty crowds, even for Test matches.
So, yes, having cricket on Sky has meant a lot of people without Sky may not have got into it through watching it on the box, but equally the ECB has been able to bankroll county and grassroots cricke and keep it going through the huge money from Sky, BT and other TV backers. It's also true to say time has moved on and a lot of sports are solely and mainly on satellite - for example, 90% of football is on Sky or BT, which hasn't stopped the popularity of the Prem League or Champs League.
Sky money has meant, for example, that club cricket can invest in kids cricket through, for example, kwik cricket and the more recent the All Stars scheme. My son has done All Stars for the last three years and our little village club was fully subscribed with 60 x 6-10 year olds each weekend getting into the game, with the ECB subsidsing it meaning we had to pay 30 quid for the whole summer which included kit, bags, bats balls and stumps for all of the kids, which they could also use at home and the club also getting kit - it was also done in combination with KCCC with the mascot turning up, the kids getting merchandise from Kent and given flyers for T20 matchs (so hopefully some went along - not last summer of course). Once the kids have been through All Stars, they then join the club's inependently run Colts team.
I'd say the biggest way of getting more kids back into cricket is getting it played at all schools - junior and secondary - not just Grammar and Public schools and linking them up with local clubs.
One big threat to local cricket is the ill-conceived and divisive Hundred, which was threatened last year and has been promised this year. A new 8 team, city-based tournament that only involves big city teams and excludes everyone else. The aim is to get new fans into the game - with constant waffle about new "diverse" audiences and mums with babes in arms etc. The 10 non-big city counties ar excluded and the rest of the county calendar is being shifted to accomodate it, with the Royal London Cup (the only domestic 50 over tournament being turned into a second XI tournament), the county championship largely being shifted to the start of the season, and the excellent and popular year-on-year T20 Blast, involving all counties, being moved away from the Summer Holidays to accomodate the Hundred, making it more difficult to take kids to the games. It seems the ECB's would rather get new people into the game in Big Cities - who have previously had no interest and there is no guarantee that they will regardless - rather than kids like my son, who may want to get into the game and, in fact, my son is probably from a similar background to most of the current, very successful England team (i.e. your Roots, Buttlers, Andersons and the like). I stll hope it falls flat on its face and is scrapped, but the ECB seem so obsessive in their backing for it, I think even if it fails they'll give away free tickets to fill stadiums and pretend it's a success as not to lose face.
Sorry for the waffle, but someone may find it a worthwhile read!
I had forgotten about "The Hundred" and now you've reminded me. F####ng shit abomination of an idea. Will boycott it. Even worse than the Premiershit U23's polluting the 'Paintpot trophy'.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
I hope it doesn't go the same way as that... I despied the idea of the U23 Prem League teams joining it with a passion, but have kind of got used to it now. Whilst I don't like it, I couldn't really give two hoots either way really. I hope the Hundred doesn't get integrated into our cricketing calendar because of similar such indifference and apathy...
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Funny how many people refer to MK Dons as Franchise when the whole of Football and Cricket is going that way.
I was always more of an avid Kent fan, for my sins and frustration, than an England fan but the Hundred looks like a death knell to county tribalism as I believe it involves merging Surrey with Kent. Is that right?
I am afraid that my general interest in sport is reducing by the day.
I was always more of an avid Kent fan, for my sins and frustration, than an England fan but the Hundred looks like a death knell to county tribalism as I believe it involves merging Surrey with Kent. Is that right?
I am afraid that my general interest in sport is reducing by the day.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
In theory, that's my understanding. The Oval franchise is supposed to represent both Surrey and Kent, but I am not aware of any Kent fans who will be supporting or taking any interest in it - from our point of view, it's nothing to do with Kent and we are effectively excluded from the Hundred.
One thing I would say about the Oval is that in my experience, when we play there, most of the spectators are Kent fans.
:-)
Have Surrey actually got any fans? They do have members who join for the England tickets.
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
From what I hear from the guys in my club who are involved in local governance in Bromley, the issue is not so much that not enough kids are playing cricket, but that they are all joining mega clubs that have links with their various junior school teams, so a club like Bromley CC might have 2 colts sides at each age group, whereas my club struggles for one all encompassed colts sides most years.
Our club (Bromley Town) will be fine for a few years yet, but we mainly exist by current members getting mates along to join in, who like it, stay, and bring more in themselves. It's not exactly the most robust method of growing a club, but we ultimately only need to get 22 players out on a weekend to keep moving forward (21 if you account for the overseas) and with the game being one you can play for a long old time in to your life, we don't actually have too much turnover. That said I feel for clubs like Wickham Park, who are in a similar boat to you it seems, as quite often there isn't really any club loyalty there, and a few of the Indian mates, whilst almost always gun cricketers, might simply decide they don't fancy it anymore one year and move on, screwing the cricket club out of almost an entire XI in on go.
FWIW, I think that the issue that the ECB need to do is to try and spread the game out from it's traditional heartlands, or even back in to formerly vibrant heartlands.
Grammar and private school kids from middle class areas in Kent etc are ALWAYS going to play cricket ffs. Their parents will be able to pay for cricket on TV, so you don't really need to work much to get them interested.
I was very much not your typical demographic, but basically after 2005 happened, I got hooked and play every week now. You need that exposure to the masses to try and get people playing.
To that end, I think the hundred is a good idea, as it is a simple method to get the best players playing together, to be played on terrestrial tv, so allow kids to see the simplest and easiest form of the game to watch and get in to. That's all the BBL is in Australia after all, and it's been a great success.
Unlike the t20 blast (which I enjoy), all the best England players will be available to play against each other (Stokes vs Archer anyone?!), along with plenty of other internationals, which just makes it an easy sell to the youth.
Yes, agree re small clubs not recruiting. Lids all going to the few big clubs like Hayes and Bromley.
Exactly the same for us in Petts Wood. Gradually getting older but bailed out by influx of some great Sri Lankan lads who have a very positive attitude. They are happy to go along with our policy of giving everyone a bat or bowl even though they could do it all themselves (and with greater success).
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
Ah yes, the owner of Elephant, which is amazing!
The kids being hoarded by bigger clubs is the biggest problem in the grassroots game IMO.
All the clubs near us that meet clubs first (which we are) are linked with a local school. We're linked with the comp over the road, which would be great if their kids came and played for us, except that the primary schools that they went to have links with the bigger clubs, so they all go there to play with their mates etc.
We're in a built up area, and close to London, so the chances of new people moving to the area for work and similar is always high (we usually pick up a couple of randoms a season which is great), but I honestly have no idea how small village teams survive, or could continue to survive, unless they have links with schools (eg Harvel and Leeds and Broomfield do).
The kids being hoarded by bigger clubs is the biggest problem in the grassroots game IMO.
All the clubs near us that meet clubs first (which we are) are linked with a local school. We're linked with the comp over the road, which would be great if their kids came and played for us, except that the primary schools that they went to have links with the bigger clubs, so they all go there to play with their mates etc.
We're in a built up area, and close to London, so the chances of new people moving to the area for work and similar is always high (we usually pick up a couple of randoms a season which is great), but I honestly have no idea how small village teams survive, or could continue to survive, unless they have links with schools (eg Harvel and Leeds and Broomfield do).
Amazing number of small clubs have gone to the wall over the years: Drake & Fletcher, Medway Brewery (Courage), Diagrit, Rootes, Townsend Hook, Ryarsh, Birling, Sharps, Anstey Miles, Maidstone Grocers, Trottiscliffe, Halling Institute, Upper Halling?, Maidstone Corinthians?, Borough Green, Boughton Malherbe, Langton Green (Gillingham not Tunbridge Wells) to name just a few I have played for or against.
Many have simply ceased to exist on the closure of the parent Company, others because of lack of support or where the main organiser stood down.
Are "Rainbow" still playing? They used to play at Watling Street but their numbers were badly hit when the Dockyard closed with players transferring to Plymouth. They carried on for a few years but I haven't seen them mentioned for some time.
Many have simply ceased to exist on the closure of the parent Company, others because of lack of support or where the main organiser stood down.
Are "Rainbow" still playing? They used to play at Watling Street but their numbers were badly hit when the Dockyard closed with players transferring to Plymouth. They carried on for a few years but I haven't seen them mentioned for some time.
timnolongerinbrisban
Vital Squad Member
There’s a FB page called cricket memories in Medway and Swale, run by Lance Morgan. Lots of old scorecards from the 60s onwards. Teams like Rainbow, EEM, Rochester, BP are regularly featured. Lance is getting together a charity weekend in August for players from yesteryear. I’ll be oiling my willow if that’s not a euphemism.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
I'd just like to point out that not all Grammar Schools are in middle class areas. I was born and bred in Chatham. With my dad working in a factory and my mum part time in a shop, getting to a Grammar School massively improved my chances in life and also got me in to cricket as it did with a number of my mates. However, I do get the thrust that not all kids get the chance to play or get into cricket at school. As I said in my rather waffling previous post, the best way to get kids into cricket is to get cricket played at all schools - primary and secondary - and that's something that the government and ECB should ensure is on the curriculum. I think watching cricket on the box is a secondary way of getting kids involved - the proof of the pudding in this is football. Most of football has been on satellite for over 30 years ago, but it hasn't stopped kids getting into it, mainly as they play it at all school from pretty much age 5 and consequently with their mates and in teams. I certainly played football before I was dragged to the Gills or watched it on the box with any interest (even though football was live on ITV and the BBC in the matches in the 80s and satellite TV wasn't even a thing).
I have to completely disagree on the Hundred though. You compare it to the BBL in Australia, but effectively the BBL's teams or franchises are city-based teams which directly map across to the State teams. I also believe that the Hundred's going to be on Sky (they've certainly talked it up and brought into the ECB's propaganda about it). The Hundred is only targetted at 8 cities and an obsession with getting new crowds into cricket - with continual waffle about diverse crowds, younger crowds, mums and families etc. I really do question whether they are interested and will fill the grounds and I think the damage the Hundred will do far outweighs that. Not only is it excluding 10 counties, so vast swathes of the country from it including our own (our our kids, families, mums and co not as important?), but a lot of traditional fans in the cities/host counties are equally disinterested in city based teams designed to represent Kent and Surrey, Hampshire and Sussex or Middlesex and Essex. As a result of this ill-conceived idea, the rest of the county season is being shifted and playing second fiddle. The T20 Blast which has gone from strength to strength in recent years is being pushed out away from school holidays and the ODI Cup will be a second team competition.
I take the point about the lack of England and international stars in the Blast, but why could they not have used the Blast in the same way they are plannning to do for the Hundred, i.e. include the England players and overseas players, and play a 3-4 week tournament during the summer holidays, with the showpiece finals day (with the semis and final) at the end - there are no plans for such a finals day in the Hundred, which is madness as it's easily the best and most colourful day in the domestic season.
SteveTreacle
Vital 1st Team Regular
It's the same from my experience - certainly from evening T20 games. The problem for Surrey (not that having a very profitable 30,000 ground which is full probably a dozen times a year for international and domestic matches is a "problem") is that their ground is not in Surrey and not even really near to where people, I would say, regard themselves as being from Surrey rather than South London. Therefore, on a big T20 v Kent, with the huge amount of Kent commuters in London (in normal times), you're likely to get more Kent fans in there (certainly more vocal ones) than the home team.
