election date to be announced today..
- Thread starter Spursex
- Start date
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
After doing their job UKIP could have then changed their focus. UK Industry Party. An alternative to Labour, driving industry and the workforce to build up our industry again.
Independent Industry with UK investment and backers. It's a progression from moving out of Europe. Be industrially independent .
Independent Industry with UK investment and backers. It's a progression from moving out of Europe. Be industrially independent .
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
why would you vote to destroy the NHS? fuck the Tories.
Welshtel
Vital Football Hero
The Daily Mail says 8th May. I hope the country speaks for a unified Britain. I'm fed up with the dividing politics that send the various parts of Britain off to do their own thing and divide us. I hope the SNP and Plad Cymru get a real set back. We don't need politicians who try and make a name for themselves like Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond splitting up the country, that's not good politics. We also don't need grabbing politics, we need a country that has a hard working population, all pulling together and gives out what's needed to those who are genuine in their needs. I'm sick of seeing those who are out of work and don't want to work, spending the taxpayers 'hard earned' on fags, drugs, expensive mobile phones and lottery cards. That just DOES NOT add up! Some of those on benefits get more per month than I do and I worked hard for 50 years. I remember one lady answering someone who was talking about 'her' benefits going up. She replied, they're not 'your' benefits, that's money we earned you. Until we deal all with all these things Britain will always have a divide. We give social payments to help people live when they have real need, not to allow them to live in relative luxury, freely off other people's hard work.
Wake up Britain, let's take charge of our economy and our services and be right in what we do. A fair society will bring more peace among us and people need to take charge of their lives not other people's lives and livelihoods.
Wake up Britain, let's take charge of our economy and our services and be right in what we do. A fair society will bring more peace among us and people need to take charge of their lives not other people's lives and livelihoods.
Spursex
Alert Team
I've worked all over the World; our delusional view of the NHS simply doesn't live up to outside scrutiny; I've worked as a none-exec in one the biggest Trusts in the UK. The NHS is in desperate need of a re-boot, a re-think a new way forward, simply having one scandal after another and brushing it under the carpet won't do anymore.
This is from a very left leaning paper and author, and it's absolutely spot on, we can't keep doing Ostrich impression any longer, this has be bigger than just throwing silly names at every different political party, it's much much bigger than that..
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-overrated-system-private-healthcare-america-inefficient-developing-world-a7683541.html
Welshtel
Vital Football Hero
It's the wealth created by the tories that keeps the NHS running. We have to face reality, we cannot keep pouring money into an NHS that is providing stupid things like bread and groceries for people who 'have allergies' etc. We all eat food, eat the stuff that suits your allergy. I'm fed up too of seeing people buying cigarettes and then going to the doctors for medicine and people who overeat being given treatment for diseases caused by overeating. We need some serious public campaign decrying bad habits and bringing some reality to the population. Stop shielding those that live their life wrong, let's invest in some training for society with a few incentives to get ourselves healthier and happier.
No one wants to destroy the NHS but we DO want to see it using the hard working people's money properly. Stop doctors prescribing aspirin, paracetamol and ibuprofen etc when they can be bought cheaply over the counter. £9:30 for a prescription against 19 pence over the counter? No contest.
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
NHS best healthcare system in the world, study finds.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health
and we spend so much less on healthcare than many other countries.
healthcare should be free at point of care. health is not a privilage, it is a right. let's keep it that way.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health
and we spend so much less on healthcare than many other countries.
healthcare should be free at point of care. health is not a privilage, it is a right. let's keep it that way.
Welshtel
Vital Football Hero
I agree with you Spurfect but we do need to do things right, if it's everyone's right to be healthy then why don't they get the message that they are doing things that are unhealthy, like smoking, over drinking, etc etc? Why do the good people of this country who work hard keeping the NHS afloat have to see their money used for people who couldn't care less about themselves or anyone else?
Spursex
Alert Team
Except it isn't Spurfect, read the article I posted, it makes it quite clear that the criteria this was judged on was simply wrong.
And from very personal experience, I can tell you it really really isn't, not by a very long way.
It needs a complete new blueprint, and yes it really can do more for less, but it will have change old work ethics, old thinking and it will have to take the Unions on, whom constantly and consistently block all changes, or delay them or deliberately make them unworkable.
we're now approaching £4 billion a year in pay-for negligence, just imagine what teh NHS could do with that (that doesn't include the legal fees which are estimated at anything between another one billion and one and a half).
Claims are stacking up waiting to be settled, I expect this bill (unless we tackle the NHS properly) to double over the next 4-5 years.
It's a very visible sign of an ailing and failing organisation - another indicator is the recent BMC investigation and report into the likelihood of claims being brought against non-British trained doctors, it makes for scary reading., and the last thing anyone could accuse the BMC of is being xenophobic or racist - it simply reported the facts and everyone run - as it's a huge hot potato....
Spursex
Alert Team
A snapshot of what's driving investigations and accelerating claims:
https://www.rt.com/uk/384226-foreign-doctors-incompetence-nhs/
Doctors trained abroad more likely to face competency probes
Published time: 10 Apr, 2017 15:03
Edited time: 11 Apr, 2017 12:18
Doctors trained abroad more likely to face competency probes
A new study has revealed doctors trained overseas are up to 13 times more likely to be hit with an investigation into their competence than those who studied in Britain.
However, researchers from University College London pointed out that much more research is needed to see if the results hold true when compared with other factors, such as doctors’ ages, gender and English-language skills.
Read more
“It’s certainly a very big effect. We can say with confidence that foreign trained doctors are more likely to get into this procedure,” one of the paper’s authors, Dr. Henry Potts, said.
According to the report, published in the BMC Medical Education journal, doctors from all countries other than South Africa were more likely to be investigated than British-trained physicians.
Bangladeshi-trained doctors were 13 times more likely to be suspected of incompetence, while those who studied in Egypt and Nigeria were eight times more likely to be investigated.
Doctors trained inside the EU were around five times more likely to face complaints.
“Where there’s enough data everywhere was higher than the UK except South Africa, which was no different. Not a single doctor from Hong Kong has come through this process so it could be that they are less likely to, but the numbers aren’t really big enough,” Potts added.
The paper highlights poor training, as well as cultural problems and language barriers as potential causes for the problem. Many patients could also be prejudiced against foreign staff, resulting in more complaints.
Potts went as far as adding that it could well be that incompetent British doctors were simply getting away with poor practice.
“Factors around staff induction, training and prior assessment before entering the UK are clearly an area we need to address,” said fellow author and president of the Royal College of Physicians, Dr. Jane Dacre.
One in four National Health Service (NHS) doctors is currently trained overseas, with the service heavily reliant on foreign staff. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has vowed to make the NHS “self-sufficient” by 2025, but critics believe the minister is doing little to make the promise come true.
Last year, the General Medical Council introduced tougher tests for overseas doctors practicing in Britain, including through practical assessment.
The BMC report also added that “patients should be reassured that the vast majority of all doctors working in the UK are competent.”
Likelihood of doctors trained abroad being investigated compared to British trained doctors:
Bangladesh - 13 times more likely
Nigeria - 8
Egypt - 8
Iraq - 7
Germany - 6
India - 5
Eastern Europe - 4
Greece - 3
Ireland - 2
Rest of the World - 2
https://www.rt.com/uk/384226-foreign-doctors-incompetence-nhs/
Doctors trained abroad more likely to face competency probes
Published time: 10 Apr, 2017 15:03
Edited time: 11 Apr, 2017 12:18
Doctors trained abroad more likely to face competency probes
A new study has revealed doctors trained overseas are up to 13 times more likely to be hit with an investigation into their competence than those who studied in Britain.
However, researchers from University College London pointed out that much more research is needed to see if the results hold true when compared with other factors, such as doctors’ ages, gender and English-language skills.
Read more
“It’s certainly a very big effect. We can say with confidence that foreign trained doctors are more likely to get into this procedure,” one of the paper’s authors, Dr. Henry Potts, said.
According to the report, published in the BMC Medical Education journal, doctors from all countries other than South Africa were more likely to be investigated than British-trained physicians.
Bangladeshi-trained doctors were 13 times more likely to be suspected of incompetence, while those who studied in Egypt and Nigeria were eight times more likely to be investigated.
Doctors trained inside the EU were around five times more likely to face complaints.
“Where there’s enough data everywhere was higher than the UK except South Africa, which was no different. Not a single doctor from Hong Kong has come through this process so it could be that they are less likely to, but the numbers aren’t really big enough,” Potts added.
The paper highlights poor training, as well as cultural problems and language barriers as potential causes for the problem. Many patients could also be prejudiced against foreign staff, resulting in more complaints.
Potts went as far as adding that it could well be that incompetent British doctors were simply getting away with poor practice.
“Factors around staff induction, training and prior assessment before entering the UK are clearly an area we need to address,” said fellow author and president of the Royal College of Physicians, Dr. Jane Dacre.
One in four National Health Service (NHS) doctors is currently trained overseas, with the service heavily reliant on foreign staff. Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has vowed to make the NHS “self-sufficient” by 2025, but critics believe the minister is doing little to make the promise come true.
Last year, the General Medical Council introduced tougher tests for overseas doctors practicing in Britain, including through practical assessment.
The BMC report also added that “patients should be reassured that the vast majority of all doctors working in the UK are competent.”
Likelihood of doctors trained abroad being investigated compared to British trained doctors:
Bangladesh - 13 times more likely
Nigeria - 8
Egypt - 8
Iraq - 7
Germany - 6
India - 5
Eastern Europe - 4
Greece - 3
Ireland - 2
Rest of the World - 2
It makes perfect sense her calling it. Will probably be one of the most one sided elections in a long time. Which is sad that people have such a poor selection of parties to chose from, a weak showing for democracy having so little choice.
What annoys me most about it is the 2 facedness of it, openly saying that this isn't going to happen and how having an election would be dangerous with Brexit ahead of us.
It's not surprising that so many people are not shocked by politicians lying, but it worries me that it is such customary behaviour for politicians that the people just accept getting lied to so frequently.
What annoys me most about it is the 2 facedness of it, openly saying that this isn't going to happen and how having an election would be dangerous with Brexit ahead of us.
It's not surprising that so many people are not shocked by politicians lying, but it worries me that it is such customary behaviour for politicians that the people just accept getting lied to so frequently.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
This is becoming another brexit vote. Article 50 rules are a little ambiguous in allowing a reversal. We could re- apply and it would need approval of the 27.
D
Departed
Guest
If it gets reversed the UK will be like a beaten dog cowering in the corner and begging for scraps.
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
Spursex - that study "13 times more likely to have competency probe" does link to any outcome data i.e. were the probes justified? or were they just being probed because of prejudice?
this line from the same paper is telling
"Many patients could also be prejudiced against foreign staff, resulting in more complaints.
Potts went as far as adding that it could well be that incompetent British doctors were simply getting away with poor practice."
this line from the same paper is telling
"Many patients could also be prejudiced against foreign staff, resulting in more complaints.
Potts went as far as adding that it could well be that incompetent British doctors were simply getting away with poor practice."
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
Tel - I think we have had this conversation before.
It's easy to blame the poor for what they spend their money on, or benefits they might unrightlfully claim (benefit fraud I have no argument there) . But it's in my opinion that before talking about what the poor spend what little money they have or what they claim and how it effects taxes that fund the NHS, it is more important to talk about the large scale tax avoidance by the extremely wealthy that dwarfs any negeative contirbutions from the poor five times over (i.e. people like Gary Barlow, Jimmy Carr)
"Just 0.7 per cent - or £1.2bn - of total benefit expenditure in 2012/13 was overpaid due to fraud. This compares with £5bn a year that the government loses through tax avoidance."
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/its-time-to-bust-some-myths-about-benefit-fraud-and-tax-evasion-9520562.html
£1.2 billion fraudulent benefit claims compared to £5 billion in tax avoidance.
then there is the estimated £60 billion pounds horded off to Panama and the like from Google, Apple, Starbucks etc.
Yes the poor smoke more, eat the cheap 2 for 1 doughnut deals that Asda have at the entrance of the stores in favour of £5 cod fillets (wonder why?) and therefore end up in hospital more. It is because those below the breadline are doing just that - consuming what they can, and doing what they can afford.
but they are by far not the biggest drain on the economy. it is concerning however, and I put to you earnestly that by keeping the Tories in power, there will be more poor people (1 million using food banks and counting) and more wealthy tax avoidance. those two "perks" of a Tory government is REMOVING wealth, not CREATING wealth from the UK, and is undermining our NHS, and the UK itself.
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
which party has said their manifesto will include reversing Brexit?
not even the Lib Dems have said this. they have said they merely oppose a hard brexit. and will fight for single market access.
read: even the lib dems will go through with Brexit.
I think only the SNP might say otherwise. I am keeping my eye on the Greens and expect them *maybe* go as far as rerunning the referendum.
Spurfect11
Vital Champions League
The bias of cancer survival studies:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2011/01/medical_statistics_and_nhs
Main two points:
1. The UK submits all hospital data to cancer datasets because of centralised process. No other country does this - only 1% of German hospitals, 15% French. Why? Only the German hospitals that perform well submit?
2. Basically, when countries do not provide free healthcare, it is more likely that people coming through the hospital doors and being reported are more likely to survive the disease. How many people cannot afford it in countries like India or Japan and end up dying from undiagnosed cancer? The article I have posted refers to John Applby, and I have personally seen him present on this, that when comparing health stats between countries it is never as easy as 1,2,3 because countries where people have to cough up for treatment, are countries that have better candidates for survival from the get-go.
It is precisley that the UK has free at point of care access that everyone is diagnosed and therefore treated. this obviously means we end up treating more deprived people who will be more likely to carry on smoking after their cancer diagnosis.
It boils down to this - free healthcare treats everyone, paid healthcare treats those more receptive to treatment in the first place. comparing surival rates is therefore not what it seems.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/blighty/2011/01/medical_statistics_and_nhs
Main two points:
1. The UK submits all hospital data to cancer datasets because of centralised process. No other country does this - only 1% of German hospitals, 15% French. Why? Only the German hospitals that perform well submit?
2. Basically, when countries do not provide free healthcare, it is more likely that people coming through the hospital doors and being reported are more likely to survive the disease. How many people cannot afford it in countries like India or Japan and end up dying from undiagnosed cancer? The article I have posted refers to John Applby, and I have personally seen him present on this, that when comparing health stats between countries it is never as easy as 1,2,3 because countries where people have to cough up for treatment, are countries that have better candidates for survival from the get-go.
It is precisley that the UK has free at point of care access that everyone is diagnosed and therefore treated. this obviously means we end up treating more deprived people who will be more likely to carry on smoking after their cancer diagnosis.
It boils down to this - free healthcare treats everyone, paid healthcare treats those more receptive to treatment in the first place. comparing surival rates is therefore not what it seems.
