Eating meat is immoral | Page 6 | Vital Football

Eating meat is immoral

Fair play, I couldn’t do it myself.

Interested to know, what about medicines? Do you abstain from taking them? This isn’t a critic or a point score by any means and you don’t have to answer.. but i personally feel more guilty about having products tested on animals than I would about eating the meat from an animal.
The principles of veganism are that we do what we can. Medicines are a case in point. Medicines in this country and elsewhere have to be tested on animals by law so therefore, if we have to take them, there is nothing we can do otherwise, so it falls within 'doing what we can'. The VS even advocates the taking of Covid vaccines and I have had mine.

FYI, wool and honey are not vegan either
 
I am just ignoring this now. You are refusing to listen to me and simultaneously inferring things I have not said and do not mean so I am walking away.

I have been listening to you, very intently as it happens. I've also been asking you to evidence what you have been saying but have only seen further opinion and conjecture put forward as supposed evidence, which naturally I have challenged.

Rather than inferring things you have not said, to be accurate it's been a case of me seeking detail and clarification on what you have said.

Possibly where we fail to comprehend one another, is what you consider to be factual statements, I see only speculation and opinion. I absolutely understand opinion and speculation as I indulge in it myself. I just don't try and dress opinion and speculation up as facts.
 
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The principles of veganism are that we do what we can. Medicines are a case in point. Medicines in this country and elsewhere have to be tested on animals by law so therefore, if we have to take them, there is nothing we can do otherwise, so it falls within 'doing what we can'. The VS even advocates the taking of Covid vaccines and I have had mine.

FYI, wool and honey are not vegan either

Yeah, I had a read up on the medicine situation and got exactly as you answered, I would imagine some do go as far as not having medicines.

Thanks for answering the questions, I’ll have ago and see if I can add more vegetarian meals to my diet.
 
You've finally caught on Bigbooty. I did wonder why you were wasting valuable time on trying to argue with me when I'm such an idiot.

Where is the point and challenge in that :ROFLMAO:

I don't argue with you - I disprove your bullshit. And from time to time, I like an update on your journey from ignorance to insanity.
 
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No. Eating meat is morally wrong. There is no moral justification for it so it is a fact. Personal choice does not make it morally right. Murder, rape etc are all somebodies' personal choice. It does not make them morally right. Give me one moral justification for eating meat.

As I have said previously, the consumption of meat is not immoral. The animal in question is dead already, and it gains no benefit from not being eaten whereas the person eating it gains the benefit of sustenance. That, in a purely moral sense, is a positive outcome.

You find eating meat disgusting. You compare the act of eating meat to rape, murder and injustice in the legal system - that's just emotional hyperbole, and a blatant non-sequitur. Understand that things you don't like or find disgusting do not automatically make them immoral.

The legitimate moral debate to be had regarding meat is around how the animal is treated and killed. Now, if you think that there is no moral justification for killing an animal, I'm more than happy to debate that point.
 
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Understand this John.
Slitting an animals throat to let the blood drain from its body whether its been stunned or not under some fucking sick religious belief should not be tolerated in this country or any country.
 
Understand this John.
Slitting an animals throat to let the blood drain from its body whether its been stunned or not under some fucking sick religious belief should not be tolerated in this country or any country.

Why do you feel that this is so different to how non-kosher/non-halal meat is killed?

Saying a prayer then killing an animal by slitting its throat is only slightly different to:

* not saying a prayer then killing an animal by slitting its throat...

* not saying a prayer, firing a bolt into its brain... and then slitting its throat

* not saying a prayer, shooting it with massive amounts of electricity to induce a heart attack... and then slitting its throat.

All of which are standard slaughter techniques in the UK and elsewhere. You however seem to believe these are radically different and in some way more "moral" and less "barbaric".

I've lived in Muslim countries. I saw streets run red with blood on Eid al-Adha as animals were sacrificed, and I was shocked. I didn't want to see it. I didn't want to be there. You however will never see it, you will never experience it, because you live in the UK, and it does not happen here and it never will.

What does happen here, however, is slaughter on an industrial scale committed with cold, slick efficiency and, in many cases, cruelty. You will never see that either, because it is all hidden away in huge factories, where conveyer belts of animals are sent speeding to their doom, where herds are forced towards the butchering pen knowing exactly what is happening up ahead, where conscious animals take several minutes to die even after their "humane" coup de grace, and where the inedible scraps and scrapings are turned into burgers and chicken nuggets for our kids, and where meat from knackered horses is slipped into our food chain to boost profits.

If you ever had the misfortune, as I have, to report on the horror that was the rendering factory in Skellingthorpe, with its uncovered dumpsters full of animal parts swarming with flies, with its pools of congealed blood and fat and a sticky stench of death that lingered so heavily that you had to throw your clothes away, or work in a factory in Scunthorpe where chickens missed by the stun bath would watch and wait helplessly as men with blades slit and chopped at the necks of the several dozen birds in front of them, you would perhaps wonder if we were any better than the "fucking sick religious" people you despise so much.

That someone happens to say a prayer before such acts are committed is the last thing you should be worried about.

And a quick question - do you or have you ever said grace? If the answer is yes, you're basically the same as the people you clearly hate for their "fucking sick religious belief".
 
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What does happen here, however, is slaughter on an industrial scale committed with cold, slick efficiency and, in many cases, cruelty. You will never see that either, because it is all hidden away in huge factories, where conveyer belts of animals are sent speeding to their doom,

One summer holiday in my mid teens I worked at Swifts for a short time. Remember seeing the birds offloaded from the lorries, hung upside down and pass through electrical probes and then a lad spent the day slitting their throats as they continued on the conveyor. I worked later in the process preparing them for packing, so away from that. Can't say it was a defining moment for me at that time, but think it was part of a process which led to my ultimate decision not to eat meat - I can still see it vividly in my mind, so obviously had an impact
 
Why do you feel that this is so different to how non-kosher/non-halal meat is killed?

Saying a prayer then killing an animal by slitting its throat is only slightly different to:

* not saying a prayer then killing an animal by slitting its throat...

* not saying a prayer, firing a bolt into its brain... and then slitting its throat

* not saying a prayer, shooting it with massive amounts of electricity to induce a heart attack... and then slitting its throat.

All of which are standard slaughter techniques in the UK and elsewhere. You however seem to believe these are radically different and in some way more "moral" and less "barbaric".

I've lived in Muslim countries. I saw streets run red with blood on Eid al-Adha as animals were sacrificed, and I was shocked. I didn't want to see it. I didn't want to be there. You however will never see it, you will never experience it, because you live in the UK, and it does not happen here and it never will.

What does happen here, however, is slaughter on an industrial scale committed with cold, slick efficiency and, in many cases, cruelty. You will never see that either, because it is all hidden away in huge factories, where conveyer belts of animals are sent speeding to their doom, where herds are forced towards the butchering pen knowing exactly what is happening up ahead, where conscious animals take several minutes to die even after their "humane" coup de grace, and where the inedible scraps and scrapings are turned into burgers and chicken nuggets for our kids, and where meat from knackered horses is slipped into our food chain to boost profits.

If you ever had the misfortune, as I have, to report on the horror that was the rendering factory in Skellingthorpe, with its uncovered dumpsters full of animal parts swarming with flies, with its pools of congealed blood and fat and a sticky stench of death that lingered so heavily that you had to throw your clothes away, or work in a factory in Scunthorpe where chickens missed by the stun bath would watch and wait helplessly as men with blades slit and chopped at the necks of the several dozen birds in front of them, you would perhaps wonder if we were any better than the "fucking sick religious" people you despise so much.

That someone happens to say a prayer before such acts are committed is the last thing you should be worried about.

And a quick question - do you or have you ever said grace? If the answer is yes, you're basically the same as the people you clearly hate for their "fucking sick religious belief".

Fair play to you John you have obviously witnessed some very poor practices within the meat industry.
By the way I am not anti groups of people who slaughter their meat in a different ways to others. I am anti religion, and that's any religion period.
And no I never say grace before a meal.
I don't, and never would say any type of prayer ever, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with anyone who does.
I respect people's customs but I don't have to agree with the practices within those customs.
 
Fair play to you John you have obviously witnessed some very poor practices within the meat industry.
By the way I am not anti groups of people who slaughter their meat in a different ways to others. I am anti religion, and that's any religion period.
And no I never say grace before a meal.
I don't, and never would say any type of prayer ever, but that doesn't mean I have a problem with anyone who does.
I respect people's customs but I don't have to agree with the practices within those customs.

Okay thanks for your response, and apologies - I do get very animated on subjects like this. Some things I've seen perhaps give me a little perspective. There is basically no way to ensure an animal does not suffer when it is killed, and what we do to put a steak or a lamb shank on the table is no more or less horrible than any other method.
 
Ok, the reason why eating meat is immoral. Humans in western societies just do not need to eat meat. Therefore, people who do eat meat make an unnecessary choice for animals to be treated as @John Bigbooté and others have described; all for a fleatingly short meal where they enjoy the taste of that animals flesh. I have a very varied and interesting diet and I run and cycle. I am living proof that meat consumption is not necessary.
 
Ok, the reason why eating meat is immoral. Humans in western societies just do not need to eat meat. Therefore, people who do eat meat make an unnecessary choice for animals to be treated as @John Bigbooté and others have described; all for a fleatingly short meal where they enjoy the taste of that animals flesh. I have a very varied and interesting diet and I run and cycle. I am living proof that meat consumption is not necessary.

No. Again - the act of eating meat in and of itself is not immoral. Whether someone needs to do something or not is a moot point.
 
No. Again - the act of eating meat in and of itself is not immoral. Whether someone needs to do something or not is a moot point.
But surely causing unenrssary suffering and killing a sentient being that wants to live is immoral if it is not needed. I cannot see how it cannot be.
 
But surely causing unenrssary suffering and killing a sentient being that wants to live is immoral if it is not needed. I cannot see how it cannot be.

At this stage, the animal is dead. It has no thoughts or feelings.
 
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At this stage, the animal is dead. It has no thoughts or feelings.
But it would not be dead if there was not the demand for it to be so. I might be a socialist but I am a socialist because I understand the rules of supply and demand.
 
But it would not be dead if there was not the demand for it to be so. I might be a socialist but I am a socialist because I understand the rules of supply and demand.

Under those terms, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to have rabbit stew in the evening as long as I waited next to a road long enough for one to get squashed.
 
Okay thanks for your response, and apologies - I do get very animated on subjects like this. Some things I've seen perhaps give me a little perspective. There is basically no way to ensure an animal does not suffer when it is killed, and what we do to put a steak or a lamb shank on the table is no more or less horrible than any other method.

No problem John and really no need to apologise.
I can totally understand how you feel from the experiences you have had.