Doug Vs Randy

BodyButter

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
Talking about bad owners in another thread got me thinking about the two Aston Villa owners who have moved on in my lifetime.

Both had their good and bad points (feel free to debate them at your will) but which was better?
 
Hard to call.

Ellis always held the club back with his corner shop mentality and had he not sold the club to Lerner we would have been in a serious financial crisis.

I actually liked Lerner when he first arrived but he soon lost interest in his English toy not helped by financial constraints imposed by his divorce and allegedly, his mother moaning in his ear!?

I'll have to give it some further thought.
 
Very close to call.

Lerner's legacy will be become clear soon enough. He made repeated references to being a custodium of this great institution and wouldn't sell to someone who he felt wasn't right.

Was this just words? Did he give a toss at the end? Or did he display bad judgement?

I think we will only be able to call it once we know whether this Chinese chap is the real deal or a chancer.

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On a side note, I'd much rather go for a pint and a (kosher) curry with Randolph than Herbert.

Hope that helps...
 
I don't care but if I must, Ellis knew more about football and was, therefore, better able to make appointments but Randy was better at letting the managers get on with the job they were paid for and, initially, stumped up a lot more cash. I'd say that they were as good/bad as each other but were the appropriate one for their times, had Doug tried to opperate in the big money days we would have ended up being relegated much sooner, had Randy tried to operate in the days that money was less important we would have struggled as he wouldn't have known who to appoint. So, in conclusion, both equally crap!

 
Luck as never really been with us when it comes to owners. When we needed a multi-millionaire we had a millionaire in Ellis and when we needed a multi-billionaire we had a billionaire in Lerner.

What Dr Tony Xia and his Recon group actually bring to the table when we need money has still to be seen?

Is he loaded? - Your guess is a good as mine and time will tell :69:
 
I have just finished reading the book about Lord Ron Saunders and I would have Randy anytime over Hubert.

He took our club from European champions to being relegated in 4 years , all at a time when we could have dominated the 80's. All because he wasn't chairman when we won the league and European cup.

And to think he wanted to be known as Mr Aston Villa , at least Randy didn't have an ego.
 
sirdennis - 29/12/2017 14:34

He took our club from European champions to being relegated in 4 years , all at a time when we could have dominated the 80's. All because he wasn't chairman when we won the league and European cup.
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Lol, sounds like Trump may have been inspired by Deadly!

Wonder if Deadly ever used the slogan "Make Villa Great Again"? :3:
 
No , he just names a stand after himself.

Actually now you mention it , there are a lot of similarities between Deadly and Trump.
 
They both failed. One made a fortune out of the club, another lost a fortune trying (but not taking on the right people to succeed)

One got us relegated after we'd been the champions of Europe and broke the team of 82 up (breaking a few of their hearts at the time) and ruined our chance of being at the top table for a very long time.

The other got us relegated having taken us from a lowly position and a near ruined club (bank overdrafts being removed etc etc) and having given us hope only to pull the plug (or pull the rug from under our feet)

The one realised when it had got too much and passed the club on. The other was only interested in himself (as per the famous Graham Taylor quote)

The one came in and tried (and then failed) to build something, put millions into the structure of the place/bodymoor etc. The other came in and ripped Villa - who had won everything at the time - apart.

 
It's a very close call. Had Randy come in a couple of years earlier, things might have been very different, but Roman Abramovich got there first.

Randy did not help himself by not appointing people to the club with proper football knowledge and experience, and hindsight has shown us he gave MON far too much money and leeway.

Agree with TH's comment about needing a multi-millionaire when Ellis was here, and a multi-billionaire when Randy arrived.

Timing has not been kind to us really. I honestly don't think Dr Xia is as minted (or indeed interested) as he makes out, but it's largely irrelevant as FFP will have us stitched up.

Wrong place, wrong time for both of them really, but if push came to shove, I would have to take Randy over Ellis. I just hated Ellis' condescending manner and smugness in interviews, and getting a European Cup winning club relegated inside 5 years is almost criminal.
 
The Fear - 29/12/2017 16:01

They both failed. One made a fortune out of the club, another lost a fortune trying (but not taking on the right people to succeed)

One got us relegated after we'd been the champions of Europe and broke the team of 82 up (breaking a few of their hearts at the time) and ruined our chance of being at the top table for a very long time.

The other got us relegated having taken us from a lowly position and a near ruined club (bank overdrafts being removed etc etc) and having given us hope only to pull the plug (or pull the rug from under our feet)

The one realised when it had got too much and passed the club on. The other was only interested in himself (as per the famous Graham Taylor quote)

The one came in and tried (and then failed) to build something, put millions into the structure of the place/bodymoor etc. The other came in and ripped Villa - who had won everything at the time - apart.
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So you prefered Doug then?




:56:

 
sirdennis - 29/12/2017 14:55

No , he just names a stand after himself.

Actually now you mention it , there are a lot of similarities between Deadly and Trump.
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Honestly, the only similarity between the two is the ego/image. Trump is always willing to put his money where his mouth is, and has (despite the media having you believe otherwise) actually done what he said he would do.
 
I think Randy made a lot of bad decisions but for the most part wanted what was best for the club, he just couldn't seem to appoint the right people and lost a fortune.

I get the impression that every decision Doug Ellis made was for the benefit of Doug Ellis not Aston Villa. Every time in my lifetime where it seemed we were on the cusp of making the next step to challenge we would stand still or move backwards.
 
Randy had good intentions just not enough knowledge or financial clout to back it up. He was burned by the O’Neill situation coupled with FFP and his family situation. I remember us being one of only a handful of clubs that voted against FFP which was put into place by a corrupt UEFA to help the rich get richer and make it impossible for aspiring clubs to reach the same heights. It is criminal to see how clubs like Chelsea and (especially Man City) have been able to separate themselves financially purely based on the timing of a corrupt regulation....
I always despised Ellis for holding the club back and allowing his ego to rule decisions. Sir Alex said in the early 90’s that Aston Villa should/would be the biggest threat to Man Utd’s dominance. Never happened did it? Only one man can be accountable for that...
RENAME THE WITTON LANE STAND!
 
Randy Lerner is a stain on the history of Aston Villa. I despise him for what has happened after MON culimnating in where we are now. And even though the MON years were good fun at the time that has been completlely sullied by subsequent events.

Yes, i get the post european cup thing with Doug. But at least we had Taylor getting us up, then runners up then BFR, Little, cup wins and a couple of fourth places, euro football fairly regular. Doug made poor decisions like any owner but with the aforementioned managers the poor ones like Dr Jo were corrected. Doug was clearly a narcissistic arse but i think he cared more for Villa than that arse Lerner eventually showed in dropping us in it time and time again. Lerner had not one ounce of business acumen and lived off Daddies money and reputation. Ask the Cleveland Brown fans. The cheek of the fecker to not show an ounce of interest for months and then to turn up and sit there laughing and joking as we get trounced in the cup final . Apparently his personal circs changed, oh fucking well, deal with it, other considerably less wealthy people than him have to get on with it. Doesn't mean you can neglect a 130 year institution. He had the responsibility as the owner and shirked it.
 
Villan Of The North - 29/12/2017 14:15

had Doug tried to opperate in the big money days we would have ended up being relegated much sooner,
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Doug got us relegated from a far better position than Lerner did.
 
If you're talking about being better overall for the club, rather than being a better person, then for me Doug, by a considerable margin.

Fact is we've not been a top club since WWII. We've had a number of owners over those years, of whom Doug was nowhere near the worst (neither was Randy for that matter). In fact with the exception of those running the club at the time of the European Cup, he was arguably the best.

Doug was a businessman, and businessman like politicians rarely attract much praise from the general public. He was well-off, but not mega-rich or even rich. When it came to running the club he was ruthless, but then maybe he needed to be. He didn't put in money which he didn't have, and watched every penny like a hawk, which he needed to.

What he did do was employ Steve Stride, who did a lot for the club, and who Randy should have kept on. He had an eye for appointing managers, and we had a load of good ones: Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian, JG to name a few. We played some pretty good football during those years, and we had players who we still remember as heros today. We never quite got to the top, the resources weren't there to sustain that sort of level, but we got fairly close. He could be surprisingly adventurous; buying Stan was a case, even if it didn't work out, likewise Venglos, who English football wasn't ready for.

He was also ruthless in changing managers, which upset people at the time, but maybe he realised the danger of persevering when things weren't working (Tony, please note). The end wasn't pleasant. Once he'd decided to sell, the purse strings were firmly tied, DOL had no funds and Bodymoor was put on ice (note though that credit is due for the vision being there in the first place). But then, he was a businessman. And I think he genuinely did try to leave the club in safe hands.
 
McParlandTheGreat - 29/12/2017 16:37

If you're talking about being better overall for the club, rather than being a better person, then for me Doug, by a considerable margin.

Fact is we've not been a top club since WWII. We've had a number of owners over those years, of whom Doug was nowhere near the worst (neither was Randy for that matter). In fact with the exception of those running the club at the time of the European Cup, he was arguably the best.

Doug was a businessman, and businessman like politicians rarely attract much praise from the general public. He was well-off, but not mega-rich or even rich. When it came to running the club he was ruthless, but then maybe he needed to be. He didn't put in money which he didn't have, and watched every penny like a hawk, which he needed to.

What he did do was employ Steve Stride, who did a lot for the club, and who Randy should have kept on. He had an eye for appointing managers, and we had a load of good ones: Taylor, Big Ron, Sir Brian, JG to name a few. We played some pretty good football during those years, and we had players who we still remember as heros today. We never quite got to the top, the resources weren't there to sustain that sort of level, but we got fairly close. He could be surprisingly adventurous; buying Stan was a case, even if it didn't work out, likewise Venglos, who English football wasn't ready for.

He was also ruthless in changing managers, which upset people at the time, but maybe he realised the danger of persevering when things weren't working (Tony, please note). The end wasn't pleasant. Once he'd decided to sell, the purse strings were firmly tied, DOL had no funds and Bodymoor was put on ice (note though that credit is due for the vision being there in the first place). But then, he was a businessman. And I think he genuinely did try to leave the club in safe hands.
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That is a really good post Mcparland. Much better than my mini rant !. Totally agree.
 
Melon Donkey - 29/12/2017 15:54

Randy Lerner is a stain on the history of Aston Villa. I despise him for what has happened after MON culimnating in where we are now. And even though the MON years were good fun at the time that has been completlely sullied by subsequent events...

...The cheek of the fecker to not show an ounce of interest for months and then to turn up and sit there laughing and joking as we get trounced in the cup final . Apparently his personal circs changed, oh fucking well, deal with it, other considerably less wealthy people than him have to get on with it. Doesn't mean you can neglect a 130 year institution. He had the responsibility as the owner and shirked it.
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Don't sit on the fence Melon, say what you think :3:
 
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