don't shout for scally to go!

[ThreeSixes]

Wow , everyday ? Where do you live ?
What white privilege do you encounter ?
Can you provide an example ?

He has said before. His family are racists

 

[Trashbat]

Wow , everyday ? Where do you live ?
What white privilege do you encounter ?
Can you provide an example ?

My son’s class has circa 30 other kids. The Mums have set up a WhatsApp group to communicate stuff about school. The only two mothers not included happen to be other only two non-white parents: a black Zimbabwe National and a British woman who has Indian roots. I don’t think any of the parents are out-and-out racists - but there is some unconscious bias.

On a separate topic... ...I regularly do the school drop as do some of the other dads - yet I am also excluded from the WhatsApp group. Sometimes women unconsciously do things to reinforce sexist stereotypes!

 

[Trashbat]

But hopefully less racism than there was before awareness was raised and discussions took place?

I don’t know. But it is at the surface rather than being taboo.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

For starters, there were his internal disputes with key club stakeholders - he surely must now regret going to war with the then GFC Supporters Club, and banning it's chairman Alan Liptrott.

Considering Scally ultimately won the court case over the domain name, I suspect Scally's regret is minimal. Plus some of the stunts the GISC did including sending out letters suggesting fans boycott buying of the club shirts because the GISC fans weren't consulted on the new shirts hardly disproves Scally's accusation that the GISC were acting against the interest of the club. And having been in the GISC drinking rooms prior to the matches back in the early 2000s, that place became very toxic with Scally basically being worse than Hitler.

Moreover, it was a grave mistake to ban the local KM Newspaper group at the same time, a primary outlet with which to promote or advertise the club to new or potential audiences amongst the wider Medway region and beyond, across Kent.

Yes because banning a media group who only writes negative stories will result in KM Newspapers Group no longer writing non-existent positve stories about the club.

He also perhaps could have done more in the aftermath of the death of Matthew Fox at Priestfield Stadium when we played Fulham in 1998 and couldn't understand why he was ostracised by Mohammed Al Fayed (Fulham's then chairman) in the boardroom at Craven Cottage a few years later. Granted, there probably wasn't a lot he could have done. But there is enough argument that he could have done more to difuse what has become a bitterly incendiary rivalry between the two clubs. Whether he was right or wrong, he shouldn't have made any references to Al Fayed in his programme notes following the exchange, and rose above it.

I admittedly don't recall any details to know whether "he was right or wrong" but seems a weak argument to suggest that Scally shouldn't have responded even in the case of Al Fayed being wrong.

Incidently, when Scally oatracised Pulis back in the day, did you think Scally was being childish?

Then there's Charlton. Granted, none of us really like our closest (geographic) divisional rivals. But Scally's incessant whinging about how their pricing and ticketing structure was depriving us of Kent-based Gills fans (and revenue)

Scally's point was underpinned by the fact Charlton's advertising in the Medway Towns of "Come and see us play Man United and Arsenal in the Premier League" was always something that we could never compete with. People were critical of Scally for not offering similar bus services to Priestfield but which bus would people get on? The one to see Man United play or Gillingham play Oldham?

Plus who gives a rat's arse if Charlton fans approve of us or not?

Then there was the ITV Digital fiasco, demanding settlement and compensation from a bankrupt TV company, which perhaps suggested his occasional naivety when it came to business.

Yes Scally is business naive unlike the other 71 league club owners who also signed up to ITV Digital.

At around the same time, he unwisely applauded the decision to dock Leeds United 20 points for falling into administration, which Ken Bates used to pin to the dressing room wall for motivation when we played our final L1 game in 2008 at Elland Road, where we needed to win to stay up (we didn't), and savage Scally's Medway United and 'Medway Village' plans.

We weren't the only club who voted for the docking of point and shared the view of the majority of clubs who had a vote. All I really remember was Scally and a few other chairman being invited onto the radio about the vote and Scally saying he thought the right decision had been made. As did a few other chairman. I don't recall him particularly applauding or gloating about it.

I don't know if Bates did pin Scally's comments on the dressing room wall (and if he did the same for other clubs who voted for the docking of points) but I'd put us losing and getting relegated down to the fact that any team who gets relegated after 46 matches are probably not very good (especially against Leeds who got into the play offs despite the 15 points docking)

It's also clear that Scally pushed many fans over the edge by appointing a manager who was public enemy numero uno with Gills fans (Steve Evans), which we accepted on the proviso that he would be given the means to put together a promotion winning team. Alas, we are still in league one, paying £24 a game to watch a team languishing in mid-table league one, and fans seem to be in sympathy with Steve Evans who has been dropping hints that it's increasiny a difficult proposition to build a successful team on a thinning budget.

I wonder how many of those threatening to boycott the club for as long as Evans is manager are also the same people who threatened to boycott the club if Evans had walked out in the past month. I would argue that the success of Evans probably is more of a credit by Scally ignoring the fans complains that club legend Steve Lovell shouldn't have been fired than a critisism.

What *does* bother me, and I suspect I'm not alone, is that these issues are increasingly intolerable in the current Post-Covid world,

I think the fans are split on this point. I think people who had prior issues will see any decisions during the current as just anther thing to add to the list, but the other half of the fans understand that Covid is a unique unexpected event. There have been a lot of complaints about the ticketing system, but googling other clubs will see other clubs are going for similiar systems and are having similiar issues. The lack of staff to run the food outlets is a european wide issue. A lot of the Covid impacted decisions are really not unique to Scally.

The fact that there sometimes seems to be 'something of the Trump' about Paul Scally -at least one or two of Scally's businesses reportedly went bankrupt under his watch too- hasn't helped, and there is increasingly less patience now for creative licensing and accounting nowadays, asone or two of my friends who run businesses or work in sales-driven environments now can attest.

In terms of the "something of the Trump" comment, a lot of the most successful business people have also suffered bankrupcy at various points. A lot of the most successful people will suggest that their post-bankrupcy success is thanks to learning the lessons of those failiure.

His recent appearances alongside that Bauvill owner from Chatham Town suggest that soon there may be new ownership, and there will be a mutual relief on the part of *everyone* that Gillingham as a football club can stabilise and move forward.

And so starts a new "I heard that Scally turned down an offer from Bauvill due to Scally's ego to want continue to be in charge" Chinese Whisper that will be used to bash Scally with.

 

[ThreeSixes]

I don’t know. But it is at the surface rather than being taboo.

What was taboo. Racism?

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

My son’s class has circa 30 other kids. The Mums have set up a WhatsApp group to communicate stuff about school. The only two mothers not included happen to be other only two non-white parents: a black Zimbabwe National and a British woman who has Indian roots.

Stupid question but where they invited to the group?

From my limited experience non-white people are less likely to use apps like WhatsApp and to quote one particlar person I worked with "I'm far to busy to waste time posting crap on WhatsApp". (I think the fact she didn't know WhatsApp is a phone app and not something like Facebook also says a lot).

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

Maybe you should speak to those countries that were formerly part of the British empire... ...maybe you’ll understand the shame.

I wonder if the people who live in the African nations that used to be part of the African empires of Cathage, Songhai (whose empire was larger than the whole of Europe) or the Malian Empire whose leader Mansa Musa is possibly the richest man ever to live feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in the Asian nations that used to be part of the Asian empires of the Monguls, Ming Dynasty, the Seleucids or the Ottomons feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in South America that used to be part of the empires of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

And as far as I know all those above traded slaves before anyone wants to go down that route, especially the African empires I mentioned.

 

[Trashbat]

Stupid question but where they invited to the group?

From my limited experience non-white people are less likely to use apps like WhatsApp and to quote one particlar person I worked with "I'm far to busy to waste time posting crap on WhatsApp". (I think the fact she didn't know WhatsApp is a phone app and not something like Facebook also says a lot).

They have smart phones, speak English mother tongue. They were eventually invited to the group by my wife.

The group isn’t a gossip column. It’s purpose is for parents/guardians to communicate about mundane school matter like: “is it PE today?”

 

[Trashbat]

I wonder if the people who live in the African nations that used to be part of the African empires of Cathage, Songhai (whose empire was larger than the whole of Europe) or the Malian Empire whose leader Mansa Musa is possibly the richest man ever to live feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in the Asian nations that used to be part of the Asian empires of the Monguls, Ming Dynasty, the Seleucids or the Ottomons feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in South America that used to be part of the empires of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

And as far as I know all those above traded slaves before anyone wants to go down that route, especially the African empires I mentioned.

They too should be ashamed. The shame of other Empires doesn’t justify our own past behaviours.

 

[valenciagill]

They were eventually invited to the group by my wife

And did they then join ?

Considering you see racism and white privilege 'everyday' , is this really the best example you can come up with ?

 

[jokerman]

I wonder if the people who live in the African nations that used to be part of the African empires of Cathage, Songhai (whose empire was larger than the whole of Europe) or the Malian Empire whose leader Mansa Musa is possibly the richest man ever to live feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in the Asian nations that used to be part of the Asian empires of the Monguls, Ming Dynasty, the Seleucids or the Ottomons feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

I wonder if the people who live in South America that used to be part of the empires of the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas feel guilty about the empires their ancestors used to be part of.

And as far as I know all those above traded slaves before anyone wants to go down that route, especially the African empires I mentioned.

Speaking as a citizen of a former member of the Roman Empire, I do have pangs about what "we" did to Carthage in the Third Punic War. First two, they had it coming, but the third with the salt and everything, way OTT in my view.

Seriously -Holocaust, the European slave trade, and now 9-11 all have people saying we must become aware and never forget, principally because the time will come when we do. Some day, people like us will view all three in the same way we view the Aztecs' mass sacrificing -remote weirdness. Meanwhile, they'll be trying to come to terms with the horrors of their own times.

 

[Solent Knight]

Taking the knee isn’t going to stop racism. Nor is any campaign like Kick Racism Out going to change people’s views. What it does it helps to raise awareness and discussion. If that, you can not deny it isn’t working.

Are we a racist nation? Certainly not a bad as some other nations but I come across racism and white privilege every day.

You must mix in strange circles then, is Alf Garnett living next door & the KKK the other side?

 

[jokerman]

They have smart phones, speak English mother tongue. They were eventually invited to the group by my wife.

The group isn’t a gossip column. It’s purpose is for parents/guardians to communicate about mundane school matter like: “is it PE today?”

I think this is a good example -it's not people with despicable views plotting to do despicable things. It's more the way things just shake out over and over again on mundane matters without people particularly meaning harm. And it's damned difficult because it involves people not seeing stuff when something's going on and people seeing stuff when nothing's going on. Everyone gets steamed, and there are people who want to stoke it from both sides.

As for Trashbat's exclusion even though he does the school run -well all I can say is I totally get that. You're a bloke ffs.

 

[Buddha]

They have smart phones, speak English mother tongue. They were eventually invited to the group by my wife.

The group isn’t a gossip column. It’s purpose is for parents/guardians to communicate about mundane school matter like: “is it PE today?”

Pleased to hear your wife invited them into the group. Your post earlier about them being excluded made me feel sad.

 

[ThreeSixes]

They have smart phones, speak English mother tongue. They were eventually invited to the group by my wife.

The group isn’t a gossip column. It’s purpose is for parents/guardians to communicate about mundane school matter like: “is it PE today?”

There are really only 2 children of colour out of 32 in your kid's class? You don't live in the hood do you!

The explanations to the WhatsApp group;

1) 29 /30 white women were racist and excluded the 2 POC's because of their race.
2) some other reason

 

[ThreeSixes]

Pleased to hear your wife invited them into the group. Your post earlier about them being excluded made me feel sad.

It made me curious

 

[shotshy]

And did they then join ?

Considering you see racism and white privilege 'everyday' , is this really the best example you can come up with ?

You want to see real white privilege, just take a look at the make up of the European Parliament .
Not too many dark faces in there when compared to the U.K. Parliament.
Shockingly under represented.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

Speaking as a citizen of a former member of the Roman Empire, I do have pangs about what "we" did to Carthage in the Third Punic War. First two, they had it coming, but the third with the salt and everything, way OTT in my view.

Seriously -Holocaust, the European slave trade, and now 9-11 all have people saying we must become aware and never forget, principally because the time will come when we do. Some day, people like us will view all three in the same way we view the Aztecs' mass sacrificing -remote weirdness. Meanwhile, they'll be trying to come to terms with the horrors of their own times.

Sapient, wise words Jokerman. But the hill doesn`t get any less steep all the while there are too many in the none so blind camp....

 

[Jerryattrick]

Sapient, wise words Jokerman. But the hill doesn`t get any less steep all the while there are too many in the none so blind camp....

As for India - taj mahal is such an emblem but why not pull it down as the builder was a colonial occupier and had mogul privilege.

 

[shotshy]

As for India - taj mahal is such an emblem but why not pull it down as the builder was a colonial occupier and had mogul privilege.

Mogul privilege brilliant