dont get sentimental about the nhs, it has to change. | Vital Forums

dont get sentimental about the nhs, it has to change.

badge73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#1
They are two cases which have been slammed as a damning indictment of the twisted priorities of the NHS.

A toddler has been refused a crucial operation which could help him walk because it is not deemed a clinical priority by NHS bureaucrats.

But just a few miles from where little Oliver Dockerty, two, could be given the gift of mobility, an NHS hospital performed a breast enlargement operation for an aspiring glamour model because it was considered necessary for health reasons.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2350581/Why-did-NHS-pay-womans-36DD-breasts-refuse-pay-operation-boy-walk.html#ixzz2XW2rwTYA

and not the only case either, only a couple of years ago i and few others on the forums raised awareness and few bob for a local lad in redditch who had to travel to america for the operations for him to walk again (help for harry) with no doubt local operations being performed for cosmetic reasons.

surely we cant look at the nhs through rose tinted glasses and say its perfect or dont need changing? surely those that want cosmetic work done as in the article can go and get it done private or go abroad, leaving our surgeons and staff time and resources to help those who actually need it to change their lives, to be able to do basic things such as walk etc
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
The NHS does need changing but fragmenting and selling it off is not the answer. We currently have one of the best value healthcare systems in the world. This government and the previous government have been trying to make it like the US. One of the worst value (but most profitable) in the world.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#3
Wow to those two examples.

That is totally and utterly wrong.

This is the trouble splitting it into areas, there aren't the right priorities.

Lovely the girl wanted to ruin what she was born with by putting in plastic balloons but that isn't a NHS thing and shouldn't ever be.

Seriously?! Blimey!

I have no sentimentality towards the NHS, it is a beast that sure as heck nearly killed me (we are talking months away) and I had to pay to save my own life.

It isn't sustainable, examples like the above show it to be an outrage and an utter joke (sadly I already knew that and it is backed up by what I was sent anonymously many years later - after the statute of limitation - about the conspiracy against my case!)

We should get tax breaks towards private medical insurance, those who won't help themselves should be struck off for all but the most pressing things (ie if you smoke, what is the point of being treated for the cancer you've put in your system IF ... I repeat IF IF IF, you aren't prepared to stop smoking. Same with obesity, if you aren't prepared to be guided and to eat healthily, why should the country then pick up the pieces when your body falls apart only for you to ruin it again?)

Sounds a bit right wing but sorry, you have to be willing to help yourself before the country should be obliged to join in and do the same.

Too much management and too much waste in the NHS.
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#4
There would be much less need for management if it wasn't being increasingly broken up, sould off and forced to compete. On eof the other main problems the NHS has is constant reorganisations. If politians would make up their bloody minds and stop changing the whole thing every few years they would save a hell of a lot of money in redundancies, keep highly experienced staff and be able to perfect ways of running things rather than continuously scrapping them.

Obviously something needs to be done about smoking and obesity. But I'm not a fan of letting drug addicts die in the gutter because they are too weak to quit. People would have a lot less weight problems if decent fod was promoted and susidised to the same extent as crap. Then the poor wouldn't be forced to eat so much processed shit that's massively high in calories. Obviously education is hugely important too. But then schools are being broken up and sold off too so we can't tell them what they should teach.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#5
Kids should be priority for everything in life, if the NHS has to change ok but the kids come first all us older can sort ourelves insurance out but the NHS should be there for kids from poor bacgrounds not people who earn 30k a year plus imo
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#6
The NHS should be there for everyone and we should find the money. If we can find hundreds of billions for invading other countries or bailing out banks then we can find the money for free health care for everyone.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#7
I do not believe if you can afford your own healthcare if you are on a high salary like 30k plus that you need to be on the NHS, people who can afford it should buy there own imo, then the less well off can be treated better
 

gator

Vital Champions League
#8
Totally agree drinkers are exactly the same I love a good drink but if I was told I had that liver disease(cant spell it)I would pack in straight away.Anyone who carries on drinking till he needs a transplant I think it's a safe bet they will carry after it.Has for the NHS well I spent a month in hospital about 20 months ago and I had my eyes opened and I would have to say it aint that good now.
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
there are a hell of a lot of problems with the NHS. These are caused by an aging population. Meaning we have a lot more people to look after for a lot longer. Personally I think we should be looking after our old people. Secondly the increased marketisation of the NHS meaning services are increasingly fragmented, in competition with each other, unaccountable to local people and incentivised to cover up failings. The coalitions recent reorganisation cost at four billion and is making the service much worse. But the worse they make it the easier it is to justify bringing private contractors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#10
Plastic Villan - 28/6/2013 15:20

If politians would make up their bloody minds and stop changing the whole thing every few years they would save a hell of a lot of money in redundancies, keep highly experienced staff and be able to perfect ways of running things rather than continuously scrapping them.
Yup, yet another - like schooling, taxation etc - where there could and should be cross party agreement on the way forward, for the greater good of the country.

It would and really COULD save us billions over the coming decades.

Too much stupidity and self interest though.
 

kefkat

Vital Football Legend
#11
Steff put up an excellent link the other day in my Greek economy topic. I listened to all of it. Of-course they wanted me to sign up etc. at the end.

Anyhow alot of it I knew (many of us on here would know and talked about with others) The fact of the matter is you could pour all the money in the world into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.

Nye Bevin created The NHS as we know. He has no one could have anticipated the revolution and the leaps in medical science which mean people are living longer and there is so much more treatment available.

As an upside to everything there is always a downside and I don't say this flippantly as medical science is awesome and alot of us would be dead, know people who would be if it wasn't for the major leaps in medical science.

Cases such as badge bought up should not be happening. We don't live in an ideal world. What is the answer? I doubt there is any straightforward long term answer.

The only thing I can see is the financial world as a whole will eventually implode in all services not just The NHS.
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#12
The problem is that the things that are being done will not benefit the vast majority of people. But they will make absolutely billions for a tiny minority at the tax payer expense. Unfortunately it's only really that tiny minoriity the is represented in parliament at the moment.
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
ClivetheVillan - 28/6/2013 15:28

I do not believe if you can afford your own healthcare if you are on a high salary like 30k plus that you need to be on the NHS, people who can afford it should buy there own imo, then the less well off can be treated better
thirty grand will not cover very much health care. An MRI scan (like the one Okore recently slept through) costs a grand a go for example.
 

kefkat

Vital Football Legend
#14
Plastic Villan - 28/6/2013 15:52

ClivetheVillan - 28/6/2013 15:28

I do not believe if you can afford your own healthcare if you are on a high salary like 30k plus that you need to be on the NHS, people who can afford it should buy there own imo, then the less well off can be treated better
thirty grand will not cover very much health care. An MRI scan (like the one Okore recently slept through) costs a grand a go for example.
Agrees 30k is not alot by todays' standard. It comes in the next group up from the bottom in wage earning groups, meaning £29-30k. The lowest being £10k up on average.

Top rate of taxation should pay private IMHO
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#15
kefkat - 28/6/2013 15:47

Steff put up an excellent link the other day in my Greek economy topic. I listened to all of it. Of-course they wanted me to sign up etc. at the end.

Anyhow alot of it I knew (many of us on here would know and talked about with others) The fact of the matter is you could pour all the money in the world into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.

Nye Bevin created The NHS as we know. He has no one could have anticipated the revolution and the leaps in medical science which mean people are living longer and there is so much more treatment available.

As an upside to everything there is always a downside and I don't say this flippantly as medical science is awesome and alot of us would be dead, know people who would be if it wasn't for the major leaps in medical science.

Cases such as badge bought up should not be happening. We don't live in an ideal world. What is the answer? I doubt there is any straightforward long term answer.

The only thing I can see is the financial world as a whole will eventually implode in all services not just The NHS.
the problem is that the rich own a vastly higher percentage of the wealth than they have done in a cery long time at the same time a squirreling most of it in offshore accounts. If wages were higher than the tax man would get a lot more cash and we'd pretty much all be better off and be able to afford better services. Most peoples wages have been falling in real terms for decades at the same time as productivity has been rising and taxes for the rich decreasing.
 

Beovilla

Vital Squad Member
#16
Definitely with the Plastic Man all the way here. Plus, I guess the examples were probably not as black and white as the Daily Mail would like us to believe. We live in one of the richest countries in the world and if we cannot look after our sick and elderly then there is something seriously wrong with the place. And don't get me started on the cost of care for the elderly; often subsidised by the state to line the pockets of unscrupulous businessmen (and women). Sort of the same could be said for housing benefit and the like.
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17
kefkat - 28/6/2013 15:54

Plastic Villan - 28/6/2013 15:52

ClivetheVillan - 28/6/2013 15:28

I do not believe if you can afford your own healthcare if you are on a high salary like 30k plus that you need to be on the NHS, people who can afford it should buy there own imo, then the less well off can be treated better
thirty grand will not cover very much health care. An MRI scan (like the one Okore recently slept through) costs a grand a go for example.
Agrees 30k is not alot by todays' standard. It comes in the next group up from the bottom in wage earning groups, meaning £29-30k. The lowest being £10k up on average.

Top rate of taxation should pay private IMHO
Could just make the top rate of tax pay more tax
 

Plastic Villan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#18
Beovilla - 28/6/2013 15:59

Definitely with the Plastic Man all the way here. Plus, I guess the examples were probably not as black and white as the Daily Mail would like us to believe. We live in one of the richest countries in the world and if we cannot look after our sick and elderly then there is something seriously wrong with the place. And don't get me started on the cost of care for the elderly; often subsidised by the state to line the pockets of unscrupulous businessmen (and women). Sort of the same could be said for housing benefit and the like.
Cheers. I was starting to think I was going fecking mad.