Disillusioned with the beautiful game??

S

steveh900

I should start this thread by saying that I have been a Gills fan since the turn on of floodlights back in the sixties and this in no way is a comment on the performance of the side this season or the running of the Club. Over the years there have been many highs and lows and doubtless this will continue – the joy of being a one club supporter.
My reference is more to the way the game as a whole is now being played. With little of football interest to occupy the mind in our last home fixture (!) I found myself looking more at the constant shirt pulling, holding and generally physical approach taken by most of the players, rather than them concentrating on the more skilful aspects of the game.
In addition we have the laughable sight of grown men (and probably some of the fittest in the land)diving or falling over, often with a theatrical scream, at the slightest nudge by an opponent before quickly recovering and going on their way. I can’t help feeling that Messrs Hunt, Burgess and Farrell et al did not perform in this way.
If you then add on the constant berating of the officials and time wasting (what is the point of the 6 second rule for goalkeepers!!) and general lack of sportsmanship (when is a throw in ever taken from the correct place) I began to wonder if this is really the ‘entertainment’ that I pay for. I have also watched a number of games over the past couple of weeks on television and sadly this seems now to be the norm throughout.
I realise we are now in a ‘win at all costs’ mentality and clearly the game has grown phenomenally but somehow, as my heading surmises, I feel very disillusioned with this ‘progress’.
Apologies for the diatribe, I am new to this, but appreciate that a number of you will have been involved with the game for many years in one way or another and wondered if anyone else has similar views – not that there is anything that can be done!!!
UTG
 
I tend to agree and it really comes to light for me with the national team.

I loved Italia 90, Euro 96 etc. I loved meeting up with mates to watch the games down the pub. I kicked every ball with Butcher, Pearce, Gazza and lineker, shearer and sheringham.

I feel no connection to the current lot and haven't for a long time. Russian world cup has no interest for me. In the last Euros I secretly felt a greater connection to the Taffs than the three lions. They seemed honest.

I don't know what it is but to be honest I hate the modern game.

I think many will agree with you.
 
Yep, pretty much agree. In this country, the shenanigans mentioned above started in the PL and seemed to coincide with the arrival of (at the risk of sounding like VG) the chaps from across the waters.
Over the last few years, this behaviour has crept into the Championship and even down to leagues one and two (those who play or watch Sunday league will know that it's even seeped into that level now too).
This is the main reason why I have not watched PL football for some years and, I am sad to say, I am not too disappointed now that I can't get to The Gills very often. Football has lost it's main point for me and that is fun. It's a sport, a form of entertainment and should be fun to play and watch but this hasn't been the case for some years.
You only have to read this board to see that that is the case, even when things have gone well, there is back biting and arguing which goes beyond a simple differing of opinion. A constant criticism on here is the lack of support and negativity of our home crowd. I remember going in the 70's and early 80's when sometimes we were absolute shite but the crowd got right behind the team and the atmosphere was fantastic.
Unfortunately, I think Steve is right, there's nothing that can be done as far as the cheating and diving is concerned, it's too late, it's gone too far unless the authorities and referees start enforcing the rules. Problem is, there's no-one around with the balls to send off Rooney for abusing a ref or Deli Alli for diving etc.
 
I'm with you on this, well at least part of the way. At the top end, it can all get a bit too theatrical, although you're a bit harsh on Deli Alli; he only came fifth in the best divers league. I think VAR will only make things worse unless it's [1] instantaneous and [2] limited to a couple of shouts per half.

I've been watching the Gills for well over 60 years, although I have no real recollection of the early days - I went because my uncle [not really my uncle] Stan took me and his son still goes to home and occasionally away matches. There are great memories of those days and the first match under lights - league cup against the once mighty Bury - still stands out for me.

I haven't been to a home game now for quite a while but have enjoyed much of this season's away campaign - oop north mainly. On balance, you don't get too much diving etc with Gills players but, like all modern footballers, they're guilty of the other infractions you mention. To me, the refs could stamp it out easily but they need support from above. The higher up the pyramid you go, it seems that the refs are all actors like the players in this huge event awash with cash and, yet in both rugby codes, the refs rule the roost.

All that said, I still watch MOTD and, yes, I cringe at times but the Roma Liverpool second leg showed how the modern game can be played.
 
With you on that last paragraph especially Wayne. I have to say I've seen a little bit of Liverpool this season and they DO look very entertaining at the same time as having some success. (Salah is just ridiculously good)
It's probably unfair to put such responsibility on them and, to give another example, Man City, but the way they have both played this season MIGHT just go some little way to restoring the faith. All comes back to money in the end though doesn't it?
 
markinkent said:
I tend to agree and it really comes to light for me with the national team.

I loved Italia 90, Euro 96 etc. I loved meeting up with mates to watch the games down the pub. I kicked every ball with Butcher, Pearce, Gazza and lineker, shearer and sheringham.

I feel no connection to the current lot and haven't for a long time. Russian world cup has no interest for me. In the last Euros I secretly felt a greater connection to the Taffs than the three lions. They seemed honest.

I don't know what it is but to be honest I hate the modern game.

I think many will agree with you.
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Italia 90 and euro 96... me too

....but do you think I might also be down to making the semi finals both times for the only time in last half a century? ( plus a couple of good tunes).

Jumpers for goal posts eh, eh?
 
Don't give me that bs about foreigners starting the diving. Francis Lee and Kevin Keegan were both renowned divers. As for the physicality you mention, I agree about the shirt pulling, but do you really want.the game to revert and encourage the likes of Ron Harris, Norman Hunter, Peter Storey? A lot of the issues in today's football are down to the manager's attitude. They could help stamp them out by suspending their own players, but they won't and they actually encourage it. The ref's could make a big difference too. Stop all the crap with not sending off players because it is too early in the game, clamp down on GK time wasting, ensure throw ins are taken at the right place AND correctly and book/send off players for getting in the ref's face over a disputed decision ( Dalglish, Rush and Souness were bad culprits with this).
 
I agree unfortunately largely with most of the above .The dominant problem is TV .Refs are scared of making the mistake TV can look at a incident from every angle .Refs only have one giving the ref more power but no more eyes really will not help .The answer could be more officials look at American football they miss nothing .But then they have so much help .This can only be done over many years of valuable training for new officials .
One short term answer could be to sort out this penalty problem .A foul or the half way line that the ref gives .Will often get waved away in the box .Because it wasn't a goal scoring chance of wasn't serious enough .I have come to the conclusion we need refs to be able to give a free kick more often in the area .For non goalscoring infringements stuff they feel is not a penalty .Shirt pulling should and could be stopped over night if refs gave a indirect free kick .At present our refs are very badly treated .In terms of pay and support from the FA and fans .But they do need more help to sort out the gamesmanship in today's game VAR is not the answer a extra official in each half would be better able to aid the ref in his judgement .
 
I think it depends what you want from your football.

The Premier League has lost nearly all its appeal for me. I keep up with it by occasionally listening to debates on Talksport and as I have always had an interest in Spurs I note that the latest criticism is that Pochettino has not won anything.

Well, for the first few rounds of the League Cup and FA Cup he plays second string teams and the likes of Van Gaal and Wenger have lost their jobs the season after winning the FA Cup so that is how devalued the domestic cups have become. It is all about getting in the top four as that is the money spinner so unless he can win the league or Champions league he is never going to win anything despite being IMO their best manager of the last 30 years.

Midweek cup ties used to be so exciting but they have now lost all their magic.

As regarding the game generally, the rules and refs instructions have made it almost impossible to defend effectively, apart from smothering by parking the bus. Although Salah is undoubted very talented I have not yet seen whether he can withstand a hard challenge. I am not advocating leg breaking tackles but in years gone by one of the tests of a player was that a defender would "whack" him early to test his mettle. The quality forwards would come back for more but everybody seems to back off Salah and give him the space he needs.

The shirt pulling is one of the few options left to defenders due to forwards being given more and more protection. If you are only interested in the attacking part of the game then you should probably enjoy it more but I preferred more of an equal contest.

Personally, I disagree with Mehmet about not sending off players because it is too early in the game. Also, about sending off players just for "raising their hands" to an opponent. Regardless of the result, in my experience the game is usually ruined as a spectacle once the sides are uneven. The side reduced to 10 are only interested in hanging on heroically and lose all ambition so I would rather that sending offs only occur in blatant cases like fighting and denying a goal scoring opportunity, I also like the idea of sin bins where the player can come back on after a penalty period.
 
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octopus said:
Italia 90 and euro 96... me too

....but do you think I might also be down to making the semi finals both times for the only time in last half a century? ( plus a couple of good tunes).

Jumpers for goal posts eh, eh?
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That's exactly what i thought. It is interesting he picked out the two tournaments we did very well in. So is it football youre disillusioned with, or is it just lack of success?
 
GillsBluenose said:
I think it depends what you want from your football.

The Premier League has lost nearly all its appeal for me. I keep up with it by occasionally listening to debates on Talksport and as I have always had an interest in Spurs I note that the latest criticism is that Pochettino has not won anything.

Well, for the first few rounds of the League Cup and FA Cup he plays second string teams and the likes of Van Gaal and Wenger have lost their jobs the season after winning the FA Cup so that is how devalued the domestic cups have become. It is all about getting in the top four as that is the money spinner so unless he can win the league or Champions league he is never going to win anything despite being IMO their best manager of the last 30 years.

Midweek cup ties used to be so exciting but they have now lost all their magic.

As regarding the game generally, the rules and refs instructions have made it almost impossible to defend effectively, apart from smothering by parking the bus. Although Salah is undoubted very talented I have not yet seen whether he can withstand a hard challenge. I am not advocating leg breaking tackles but in years gone by one of the tests of a player was that a defender would "whack" him early to test his mettle. The quality forwards would come back for more but everybody seems to back off Salah and give him the space he needs.

The shirt pulling is one of the few options left to defenders due to forwards being given more and more protection. If you are only interested in the attacking part of the game then you should probably enjoy it more but I preferred more of an equal contest.

Personally, I disagree with Mehmet about not sending off players because it is too early in the game. Also, about sending off players just for "raising their hands" to an opponent. Regardless of the result, in my experience the game is usually ruined as a spectacle once the sides are uneven. The side reduced to 10 are only interested in hanging on heroically and lose all ambition so I would rather that sending offs only occur in blatant cases like fighting and denying a goal scoring opportunity, I also like the idea of sin bins where the player can come back on after a penalty period.
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I'm sort of with you on the sending off issue but more so on the liberal brandishing of cards generally. Refs seem far too keen to issue a yellow card for the first incident and are then often reluctant to issue a second even if it's warranted. A foul and a finger wag; then a foul and a stern warning and then a foul and a yellow if it's necessary. I don't like the idea of totting up fouls and giving a yellow for a subsequent infringement. A foul deserves a yellow based on its merits [or lack of].
 
The top division has some players at the very top level world wide and some of the play is light years away from league one. That gap has grown and we have been able to see more and more of the top stuff and to hear an army of commentators dissecting it. That must have an effect on perceptions however much, or little one likes the premiership.

Two hopeful pointers for me: first referees at our level seem to me to have allowed more physical tussling go this season as long as it looked 5/50. Applying the touch me and I'm down top level rules makes a nonsense of lower division football. Second we at last have a couple of teams at least, Man City & Liverpool, who have reverted to the score if you will but we'll score more mentality. Let's hope it's a trend because a shortage of goals is dull in itself and leads to relentless disputing of the few that do go in.
 
alphabet_king said:
That's exactly what i thought. It is interesting he picked out the two tournaments we did very well in. So is it football you're disillusioned with, or is it just lack of success?
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As gills fans you are asking if I am motivated by success :eek!:

I think its more the personalities in the team. I found it easy to get behind the likes of Butcher (with the blood pouring from his head) or Pearce after the penalty miss. Even Sheringham and Shearer seemed far more "normal" to the average fan. I don't feel the same about Raheem Sterling, Welbeck or Sturridge.


I also think its the way the England team crumble now e.g Iceland.

They don't come across as having the same passion.

It might just be my age as well. I was in my early twenties when Euro 96 and Italia 90 wason. Football was a lot higher up my priorities than it is now.
 
I stopped watching and following the Premier league some time ago.
I don't know why but it just doesn't interest me.
I occasionally catch the tail end of MOTD on Sunday morning while waiting for Andrew Marr, but that's about it.

I record the channel 5 Championship and League one and two show, and enjoy watching those snippets.

I guess I've just kind of fallen out of love with football a bit and the Premier league and the obscene excesses are a lot to do with it.
 
Agree with the OP. Sky Sports has a lot to answer for, they started the gravy train.. Far, far too much money involved in the Premier League. Those able should maybe get out of their armchairs and support the lower leagues a bit more. Unfortunately, there seem to be fewer and fewer incentives these days.....
 
I have been going to Priestfield since the 70's and my answer to the OP question is no. Football has changed, like most things, and for some change is not always a good thing. I am not decrying or disagreeing with the comments above, as they are personal views. However I remain fascinated by the Premiership, Championship and Non-League too. The real positive is I now have the opportunity to watch so much more, and I thank Sky for that. The reality is that the English game has never been watched by so many people, and as a simple measure of success that has to be a positive?

I have never felt 'close' to any era of footballers. I get behind them because they play for my team or country, not because they seem normal or I can relate to them. I guess that's just a personal thing also.

I think the most telling comment on this thread is by Markinkent - "It might just be my age as well.". Expectations at Priestfield have changed for sure and that has made a difference. I remember attending in the 80's & 90's when we absolute shite and still coming home with a huge smile on my face. We revelled in the fact that we were crap, probably highlighted best by BMH which was magnificent pss take but always with an affectionate nod. Those times have gone. If you lose three matches in a row in todays world then the world is ending. That's something I can't quite get my head around.

Like I say - times have changed, but English football.. I love it.
 
Interesting post Steve.. I too am becoming increasingly disillusioned with the game i've always ate, drank, and slept since I was old enough to kick a ball.

The cheating aspect of it, I only find mildly irritating. The lack of atmosphere, compared to how it was when I was going to the majority of home & away games back in the late 80's through to the early naughties, bugs me more. But both are just symptoms of the real reason my enthusiasm is slowly ebbing away, and that is the main cause of the problem - money.

Money, same as most things in this world, is the key contributor. And the ever increasing expectations and restlessness from the fans as a result is the biggest reason it's killing it for me.

If the powers that be had introduced transfer and wage caps a long time (before things got out of hand), I think the game in general wouldn't have changed an awful lot to how it was back then.
And even better, if it was illegal for one club to purchase anothers young home grown player, lets say for arguments sake, under the age of 23. I think that this rule alone would have made a massive positive difference, especially to lower league clubs. You only have to read the book about the scouting networks - The Nowhere Men, to see just how dog-eat-dog the situation is with young players being syphoned up to the big boys. How much better would we have been if our Ryan Bertrands and Luke Freemans would have stayed playing with us until their early 20's?

But of course, money breeds corruption, and so the above was never going to happen in the first place unfortunately.
And now there are more and more clubs being bought by wealthy foreign investors. It's crazy. It's just turned into a big game of financial chess, that the clubs with the biggest budgets always coming out on top eventually. There is of course the odd welcome anomaly most seasons, with Leicester winning the Prem and various different clubs down the leagues punching above their weight for a breif period of time, but the bigger the budget difference between the leagues grow, the less likely this is going to happen going forward, and it's just soul destroying in my view. Especially for us smaller clubs lower down the pyramid.

I will always have a love for my home team, and even though there are lots of negatives about our national side, I hope to still get some enjoyment out of supporting England (mostly down to the people I follow England away with) over the coming years. But the more that money and greed continue to kill the game off, the less enthusiasm and enjoyment i'm going to get out of it unfortunately.
 
I agree with all that's been said. Living in France I don't have much opportunity to attend matches live but I don't miss them nor do I watch games on TV because of the gamesmanship that is rife in the modern game.
Brought up in the 50's when there was (generally) a lack of histrionics and sportsmanship was prevalent. Yes, all teams played hard and played to win but they didn't resort to sneaky tactics to try and influence referees.
As referees now need eyes in the back of their head I think all matches should be assessed by a real time TV referee in contact via a radio link with the on-field officials. This should assist with decision making, without interrupting the flow of games.
Because I feel that managers & clubs condone what goes my solution would be to managers & players where it hurts - in the pocket AND to fine clubs where it hurts them - not financially but by deducting a point for EVERY occurrence. It shouldn't take too long for the penny to drop that points deduction could lead to relegation, with concurrent loss of both prestige and cash. Chairmen and boards would soon take appropriate action to curb this offensive on field behaviour.
 
It's the general shift from needing a bit of money to make things tick along to making things tick along to make money. Then we all start wittering about efficiencies and value for money. We go to the football to be entertained in exchange for money instead of going to the football because it's the football and you just do.
 
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