DID THE DOCTOR PULL THE PLUG? | Page 4 | Vital Football

DID THE DOCTOR PULL THE PLUG?

Thing is Danny, you don't know how long they've known about the betting thing. It might only have been in the last few days. But you're right ........ it changes things significantly.


Not really something that you can prove theyve known about for more than a few days unfortunatley. I dont see why you think it will get us booted out, more like relegated a few times didnt something like that happen in italy and juve and a few other clubs got relegated ?
 
On a footballing perspective I think we would go down, im just being bloody honest. I did think we were done, 4 points and no one else pulling away further is hard enough in this division but 6 points as a bare minimum yes that was a step too far for me.

Its my opinion !!!!! You think im negative i dont care, I think its realism. I think its incredible you think our run will last forever and others will keep losing, if anything the opposite will happen they will pick up more points from now untill the end of the campaign. Its likely we would need to win 4 or 5 of those games as other clubs will hit winning runs as teams fighting for their lives often do thus the gap grows bigger and bigger.

I've explained my logic Danny ....... from a maths, form, opponents, and a team attitude point of view. I've little doubt we'll be further away from a relegation place at the end of the season than we are now. We're currently 7 points away. Could we get to 12? I think so. It sounds like you feel a little guilty for thinking that we won't.
 
Not really something that you can prove theyve known about for more than a few days unfortunatley. I dont see why you think it will get us booted out, more like relegated a few times didnt something like that happen in italy and juve and a few other clubs got relegated ?

The reason why I brought up the timing is because you posted "Then surely that means they should have investigated it fully before allowing the takeover bid to be accepted.", presuming that they knew about it back then.

Maybe they didn't. That's all.
 
I've explained my logic Danny ....... from a maths, form, opponents, and a team attitude point of view. I've little doubt we'll be further away from a relegation place at the end of the season than we are now. We're currently 7 points away. Could we get to 12? I think so. It sounds like you feel a little guilty for thinking that we won't.
If the current gap remains we will be ok, but it will grow and grow its the business end of the season now clubs will get shock results to stay up and theres only 6 left.
 
If the current gap remains we will be ok, but it will grow and grow its the business end of the season now clubs will get shock results to stay up and theres only 6 left.

I'm not sure what you mean. If the gap grows - between us and the relegation places - then that's good. It means we could get the points reduction and still stay up.
 
EFL themselves have confirmed that the video is real. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find the video to watch it myself.

I suggested as much within an hour of the news coming out: the owners have consciously pulled this move because of gambling:

Could be they offered very long odds (in their capacity as bookies) on survival when we were stuck in a rut, and now we've crawled back and we're looking good to survive, they've realised how much that would cost them and decided to shaft the club to prevent that from happening.

Could be that Choi and his mates themselves bet against our survival, and stand to lose a fortune if we stay up... So again, they deliberately tank the club to ensure they 'win'.

The amounts of money involved back this up. Losing £20 million on Latics is chicken feed compared to what's won and lost in gambling, especially in the Far East where gambling is worth billions.

If this is the case and can be proven, then surely they should be banged up. It's illegal to bet on anything where you have direct control / input into the outcome... It's the reason players aren't allowed to bet, and especially on games they're playing in. I don't see how that law could be any different anywhere, since betting on something where you can directly influence the outcome is by definition not actually betting. It's more like fraud.

The fact is that there's something extremely fishy. The club is worth virtually nothing now. If they'd have put in a handful of million to get us to the end of the season, the way things were going we'd have been a mid table Championship club, which would have been worth a lot more than what they'd have had to put in to keep it going until the end of the season. They could then have sold it, maybe even at a small profit. There's literally no legitimate business case for the direction they've taken.

We also fall into a very difficult category for the purposes of finding a buyer. Too small for the big time players who want to buy titles, but too big for the 'local boy done good' type of businessman (Mr Whelan being an honourable exception). Only really Ainscoughs could afford it, but I'm not aware that they have any interest in football.

Within an hour of the news breaking, I thought of the possibility of getting a fans' group together, but when I did some basic numbers, it's not feasible because we're still too big for that. Being (probably very) generous and assuming that we could get 500 people willing to invest, they'd have to each put in an average of £20k to get the £10m the administrator needs to see proof of. There are probably 500 people in Wigan who could afford that and they'd probably be willing if it wasn't for the fact that they'd then have to be paying a further £300 each every month for the foreseeable future just to maintain current operations. Investing £20k in something that is then a £300 per month millstone for the foreseeable future is very different to investing £20k in something where there's a return. It's simply not going to happen. Unless someone comes in who can afford to prop the club up themselves, with enough funds to maintain support for some time until restructuring can be properly done, we're goners. And there's nothing we can do about it.

Would be great to sue Choi, but those proceedings would take far longer than the club has got. Lock me in a room with him for a few minutes and I reckon I'd make him change his mind... But he's the invisible man; I wouldn't even know what he looked like.

Let's hope Mr Whelan sees some opportunity here. I'm not holding up any hope for anyone else, unless it's a crazy billionaire with a sense of humour... One that occurred to me (it's A VERY long shot) would be Red Bull. They have form for buying struggling football clubs (not in particularly 'fashionable' locations as well) and turning them around. Leipzig is probably the best known of them, but they own clubs in several countries. Since theoretically we're one good season away from the Premier League and wouldn't cost them much in terms of initial investment, we may represent a good marketing opportunity for Red Bull. Being part of a corporate marketing strategy isn't the perfect ownership, but it's definitely better than going under.
 
I'm not sure what you mean. If the gap grows - between us and the relegation places - then that's good. It means we could get the points reduction and still stay up.
Im saying on the proviso we are docked points if the gap continues to grow with those around us such as hull continuing to win it doesnt matter how well we do and I think the teams around us will win many more points from now until the end of the season meaning to stay up we need to be near perfect.
 
Im saying on the proviso we are docked points if the gap continues to grow with those around us such as hull continuing to win it doesnt matter how well we do and I think the teams around us will win many more points from now until the end of the season meaning to stay up we need to be near perfect.

Danny, mate, I Think I know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make sense.

The only gap that's been growing so far is the one between us and the bottom teams ........ so, the only gap that can "continue to grow" is that one.

What I think you mean is that if we get the deduction, (ending up in the relegation places) then we might not be able to make up the points required, as the other teams may get more points than us.

However, that isn't happening at the moment. Is it. Even Colin ******, the Saviour lost the other night.
 
EFL themselves have confirmed that the video is real. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find the video to watch it myself.

I suggested as much within an hour of the news coming out: the owners have consciously pulled this move because of gambling:

Could be they offered very long odds (in their capacity as bookies) on survival when we were stuck in a rut, and now we've crawled back and we're looking good to survive, they've realised how much that would cost them and decided to shaft the club to prevent that from happening.

Could be that Choi and his mates themselves bet against our survival, and stand to lose a fortune if we stay up... So again, they deliberately tank the club to ensure they 'win'.

The amounts of money involved back this up. Losing £20 million on Latics is chicken feed compared to what's won and lost in gambling, especially in the Far East where gambling is worth billions.

If this is the case and can be proven, then surely they should be banged up. It's illegal to bet on anything where you have direct control / input into the outcome... It's the reason players aren't allowed to bet, and especially on games they're playing in. I don't see how that law could be any different anywhere, since betting on something where you can directly influence the outcome is by definition not actually betting. It's more like fraud.

The fact is that there's something extremely fishy. The club is worth virtually nothing now. If they'd have put in a handful of million to get us to the end of the season, the way things were going we'd have been a mid table Championship club, which would have been worth a lot more than what they'd have had to put in to keep it going until the end of the season. They could then have sold it, maybe even at a small profit. There's literally no legitimate business case for the direction they've taken.

We also fall into a very difficult category for the purposes of finding a buyer. Too small for the big time players who want to buy titles, but too big for the 'local boy done good' type of businessman (Mr Whelan being an honourable exception). Only really Ainscoughs could afford it, but I'm not aware that they have any interest in football.

Within an hour of the news breaking, I thought of the possibility of getting a fans' group together, but when I did some basic numbers, it's not feasible because we're still too big for that. Being (probably very) generous and assuming that we could get 500 people willing to invest, they'd have to each put in an average of £20k to get the £10m the administrator needs to see proof of. There are probably 500 people in Wigan who could afford that and they'd probably be willing if it wasn't for the fact that they'd then have to be paying a further £300 each every month for the foreseeable future just to maintain current operations. Investing £20k in something that is then a £300 per month millstone for the foreseeable future is very different to investing £20k in something where there's a return. It's simply not going to happen. Unless someone comes in who can afford to prop the club up themselves, with enough funds to maintain support for some time until restructuring can be properly done, we're goners. And there's nothing we can do about it.

Would be great to sue Choi, but those proceedings would take far longer than the club has got. Lock me in a room with him for a few minutes and I reckon I'd make him change his mind... But he's the invisible man; I wouldn't even know what he looked like.

Let's hope Mr Whelan sees some opportunity here. I'm not holding up any hope for anyone else, unless it's a crazy billionaire with a sense of humour... One that occurred to me (it's A VERY long shot) would be Red Bull. They have form for buying struggling football clubs (not in particularly 'fashionable' locations as well) and turning them around. Leipzig is probably the best known of them, but they own clubs in several countries. Since theoretically we're one good season away from the Premier League and wouldn't cost them much in terms of initial investment, we may represent a good marketing opportunity for Red Bull. Being part of a corporate marketing strategy isn't the perfect ownership, but it's definitely better than going under.

Red Bull Wigan, RB Wigan or Wigan Red Bulls?

One thing in our favour is Wigan is close enough to 'wings', so we could be good for marketing puns if nothing else

1593774203560.png
 
Danny, mate, I Think I know what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make sense.

The only gap that's been growing so far is the one between us and the bottom teams ........ so, the only gap that can "continue to grow" is that one.

What I think you mean is that if we get the deduction, (ending up in the relegation places) then we might not be able to make up the points required, as the other teams may get more points than us.

However, that isn't happening at the moment. Is it. Even Colin ******, the Saviour lost the other night.

it does make sense. If theyve already said we will be docked points you may aswell deduct them now right? Therefore we stand on 38 points way off safety with games against teams scrapping for the very same points. Thats not an excellent position to be in is it, bottom of the league 6 from safety due to goal difference
 
it does make sense. If theyve already said we will be docked points you may aswell deduct them now right? Therefore we stand on 38 points way off safety with games against teams scrapping for the very same points. Thats not an excellent position to be in is it, bottom of the league 6 from safety due to goal difference
But they haven't already deducted them. ....... look at the league table. They've made a statement, that's all.

Regardless, you mentioned about the gap continuing to grow .......yet we've been picking up more points than those other teams.

I'll leave it there. You're free to think that we're "done" if that's what you feel.
 
But they haven't already deducted them. ....... look at the league table. They've made a statement, that's all.

Regardless, you mentioned about the gap continuing to grow .......yet we've been picking up more points than those other teams.

I'll leave it there. You're free to think that we're "done" if that's what you feel.
You split hairs better than anyone ive ever spoken to, you know exactly what I mean stop being so argumentative and pedantic. As i said ill hold my view, you hold yours. Chances are itll be off the field matters that decide our ultimate fate.
 
You split hairs better than anyone ive ever spoken to, you know exactly what I mean stop being so argumentative and pedantic. As i said ill hold my view, you hold yours. Chances are itll be off the field matters that decide our ultimate fate.
I'll take that as a compliment Danny................... and I'm impressed by your switching of position ............... from yesterday thinking that we were "done" due to Hull's win, to now to assuming it'll be "off the field matters that decide our ultimate fate".

(y)

:rolleyes:
 
I'll take that as a compliment Danny................... and I'm impressed by your switching of position ............... from yesterday thinking that we were "done" due to Hull's win, to now to assuming it'll be "off the field matters that decide our ultimate fate".

(y)

:rolleyes:
Well of course it will brainiac. The 12 points reduction relegates us nothing else jesus wept. My switch in position is due to the complete gaff up from parry purging himself and the efl.
 
Well of course it will brainiac. The 12 points reduction relegates us nothing else jesus wept. My switch in position is due to the complete gaff up from parry purging himself and the efl.

Danny, with everything else that's going on, I really can[t be arsed responding to childish insults from you.

The players have left on the coach for Brentford. As far as they're concerned, we're a long, long way from relegated. They're still fighting to ensure that the 12 points - even if taken off this year - doesn't relegate us.

If however, you choose to see things as already done and dusted, then dip yer bread. I hope you enjoy it.
 
Danny, with everything else that's going on, I really can[t be arsed responding to childish insults from you.

The players have left on the coach for Brentford. As far as they're concerned, we're a long, long way from relegated. They're still fighting to ensure that the 12 points - even if taken off this year - doesn't relegate us.

If however, you choose to see things as already done and dusted, then dip yer bread. I hope you enjoy it.

Exactly leave me be if im so annoying, not doing you any harm am I.

Lets just leave it there moonay we sound like a couple of old washer women
 
This betting thing could well back fire on us big style. Don’t forget. These at the time was our owners. Betting on there own team. Be very careful what we wish for. Could well be league 2 What would have happened if they found before we went into administration
 
"Could be they offered very long odds (in their capacity as bookies) on survival when we were stuck in a rut, and now we've crawled back and we're looking good to survive, they've realised how much that would cost them and decided to shaft the club to prevent that from happening."

The quote above is from the Pons post earlier in the thread.

I know this is speculation but if their is any truth in it then the EFL should rescind the deduction and let the bastards flounder when people want their money out of them, perhaps this would lead to their company going into bankruptcy.

Hope they get what they deserve.