Derby going into Administration | Page 5 | Vital Football

Derby going into Administration

JC21 said:
You are actually right, there is a 12 point deduction with 3 of them suspended but then there is also a different 3 points for missed payment of wages that is also suspended
Click to expand...
Today's Daily Mail says that if Derby don't pay the wages for September that the 3 points suspended penalty is activated. Mind you, it also says that there will be no meat available in the UK from two weeks' time..........
 
Last edited:
chandos9 said:
Today's Daily Mail says that if Derby don't pay the wages for September that the 3 points suspended penalty is activated. Mind you, it also says that there will be no meat available in the UK from two weeks' time..........
Click to expand...

Yeah that's right. The 3 points for the wages is suspended until the time they fail to pay it
 
With regards to the P&S they will get 9 points this season and 3 points next season
 
Just out of interest for anyone who thinks that the football system is currently working and is being helped by FFP/ P&S here are a few numbers from clubs 2020 accounts, produced as at May or June prior to the worst effects of covid. Derby accounts actually appeared to be one of the stronger ones, though they are complicated by companies of different names .

Forest Balance sheet value MINUS 45 million
Profit and loss reserve MINUS 187 million
Creditors due within a year 73 million (money due to be paid out)

Millwall BS value MINUS 91 million
P&L reserve MINUS 92 million
Creditors due within a year 111 million

Reading BS value MINUS 66 million
P&L reserve MINUS 138 million
Creditors due within a year 109 million

Blackburn BS value MINUS 133 million
P&L reserve MINUS 282 million
Creditors due within a year 170 million

Without studying the accounts in any detail, I guess most of the money is owed to the owners, but technically all the above clubs have gone bust and are only trading because their owners guarantee the debts.
 
Lienking said:
Just out of interest for anyone who thinks that the football system is currently working and is being helped by FFP/ P&S here are a few numbers from clubs 2020 accounts, produced as at May or June prior to the worst effects of covid. Derby accounts actually appeared to be one of the stronger ones, though they are complicated by companies of different names .

Forest Balance sheet value MINUS 45 million
Profit and loss reserve MINUS 187 million
Creditors due within a year 73 million (money due to be paid out)

Millwall BS value MINUS 91 million
P&L reserve MINUS 92 million
Creditors due within a year 111 million

Reading BS value MINUS 66 million
P&L reserve MINUS 138 million
Creditors due within a year 109 million

Blackburn BS value MINUS 133 million
P&L reserve MINUS 282 million
Creditors due within a year 170 million

Without studying the accounts in any detail, I guess most of the money is owed to the owners, but technically all the above clubs have gone bust and are only trading because their owners guarantee the debts.
Click to expand...
Blimey. It's a bit like the advice on how to become a millionaire from greyhound racing, which is to start with two million.......
 
Im no financial guru or in the know as some of you on here...but surely this is years of Mel morris and mismangement/shady dealings that is coming home to roost?

even though its Derby I feel sorry for the fans, its always the fans who get the shaft...owners/players/management come and go but fans remain through the shite
 
Southern red said:
Im no financial guru or in the know as some of you on here...but surely this is years of Mel morris and mismangement/shady dealings that is coming home to roost?

even though its Derby I feel sorry for the fans, its always the fans who get the shaft...owners/players/management come and go but fans remain through the shite
Click to expand...

To be fair the fans have also seen more decent seasons than us recently, including 4 tilts at the playoffs, and two Wembley playoff finals. Not sure when MM actually took over.
 
Southern red said:
Im no financial guru or in the know as some of you on here...but surely this is years of Mel morris and mismangement/shady dealings that is coming home to roost?

even though its Derby I feel sorry for the fans, its always the fans who get the shaft...owners/players/management come and go but fans remain through the shite
Click to expand...

The fans didn't seem that unhappy when they thought Mel was leading the EFL a dance, a master puppeteer of sorts and they were getting away with it (aka cheating). Now they are the victims?!

From what I've heard Mel Morris ran Derby his way, irrespective of consequences. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with Dell?!

Many of the more sentient DCFC fans look back at the way he dealt with Sam Rush and feel that is where the troubles began (2017-8).

They knew they were flouting FFP/P&S rules but they thought Mel would get them to the EPL (which was the target) & then, it would go away.

Mel is now bemoaning some of those decisions, but he was the architect and whenever his authority was questioned, he made further poor decisions - deciding to fight the EFL rather than take the punishment, the way he dealt with Keogh when Lawrence was the main culprit - leading to another failed lawsuit for unfair dismissal - like with Sam Rush.

He antagonised Steve Gibson too, who then made it his mission to get the EFL to take notice and ultimately, investigate DCFC's dealings.

I do feel for the staff and small businesses who will suffer, Mel will just move away with his millions - the players will still get paid - the fans will just still be there, as most of us were when Forest went into L1.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
The fans didn't seem that unhappy when they thought Mel was leading the EFL a dance, a master puppeteer of sorts and they were getting away with it (aka cheating). Now they are the victims?!

From what I've heard Mel Morris ran Derby his way, irrespective of consequences. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with Dell?!

Many of the more sentient DCFC fans look back at the way he dealt with Sam Rush and feel that is where the troubles began (2017-8).

They knew they were flouting FFP/P&S rules but they thought Mel would get them to the EPL (which was the target) & then, it would go away.

Mel is now bemoaning some of those decisions, but he was the architect and whenever his authority was questioned, he made further poor decisions - deciding to fight the EFL rather than take the punishment, the way he dealt with Keogh when Lawrence was the main culprit - leading to another failed lawsuit for unfair dismissal - like with Sam Rush.

He antagonised Steve Gibson too, who then made it his mission to get the EFL to take notice and ultimately, investigate DCFC's dealings.

I do feel for the staff and small businesses who will suffer, Mel will just move away with his millions - the players will still get paid - the fans will just still be there, as most of us were when Forest went into L1.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. He saw clubs ‘getting away with things’ by getting promoted and decided he could do the same. Even the salutary lesson provided by QPR didn’t give him pause and he seemed to ignore the fact that clubs like Villa and Bournemouth came to arrangements with the EFL despite being in the Prem.

His actions have led to both the EFL and rival owners making it their mission to ‘out’ Derby and ensure they are punished properly.

He has been the sole architect of Derby’s demise and his inability to accept responsibility or consequences has only made matters worse.
 
Basha73 said:
Absolutely. He saw clubs ‘getting away with things’ by getting promoted and decided he could do the same. Even the salutary lesson provided by QPR didn’t give him pause and he seemed to ignore the fact that clubs like Villa and Bournemouth came to arrangements with the EFL despite being in the Prem.

His actions have led to both the EFL and rival owners making it their mission to ‘out’ Derby and ensure they are punished properly.

He has been the sole architect of Derby’s demise and his inability to accept responsibility or consequences has only made matters worse.
Click to expand...
Correct. He virtually said as much in that interview on Radio Derby yesterday. Towards the end, he was asked some questions about the ownership of their ground and was asked what price the administrator would be paying if they wanted to get that back. The interviewer was a bit tongue- in- cheek, but Morris seemed to think that he could decide whatever he wanted on that.

If anyone is interested in seeing the EFL documents/ claims etc, the lawyers instructed in the case have put these on their Chambers website: https://www.blackstonechambers.com/news/efl-v-derby-county/
 
mao tse tung said:
I am not sure it works like that.

I am fairly certain that Dell will get their money back in full, due to the charge being in place.

Unless the club completely folds, The HMRC debt will carry over to the new owners; it will not go away, and neither will the football related debt.

Its going to cost a new owner the best part of 60m before they think of any new players.

My mate reckons it will take five years for them to recover.
Click to expand...
presumably 5 years in his league, but with less money and crowds in leagues one and two in it could take ten :)
 
chandos9 said:
Today's Daily Mail says that if Derby don't pay the wages for September that the 3 points suspended penalty is activated. Mind you, it also says that there will be no meat available in the UK from two weeks' time..........
Click to expand...
CO2 issue apparently, so all that meat I guess will get frozen instead of wrapped
 
Our Kids Dad said:
The fans didn't seem that unhappy when they thought Mel was leading the EFL a dance, a master puppeteer of sorts and they were getting away with it (aka cheating). Now they are the victims?!

From what I've heard Mel Morris ran Derby his way, irrespective of consequences. It'll be interesting to see how he deals with Dell?!

Many of the more sentient DCFC fans look back at the way he dealt with Sam Rush and feel that is where the troubles began (2017-8).

They knew they were flouting FFP/P&S rules but they thought Mel would get them to the EPL (which was the target) & then, it would go away.
Click to expand...

A fair viewpoint, but I can't help but feel some sympathy. Like most championship fans, I do resent Derby fans for the great times they have had in the last 8 years or so, the playoff finals, the playoff chasing every single year, while we have largely been very poor to watch.

But at the same time, just saying that Derby fans are reaping what they sowed doesn't sit right.

They didn't sow it, they didn't choose it. They enjoyed the good times, true; but they didn't take those decisions and they were not aware of the consequences. Yes, they might have guessed some of the possible consequences; but their owner assured them they were ahead of the game.

Unfortunately, fans do have a tendency to over-trust their owners- just look at how many of our fans were prepared to throw their knickers and their mortgages at Fawaz.

If you had been able to show Derby fans the club as it is today and told them that this was the consequence if they didn't get promoted- would all of them have readily agreed to that spending? Some would take the risk maybe, but most fans, if they were fully aware of the extent of the risks, would put the club first and prefer to work their way up slower.

But fans don't get that option
 
It's probably worth noting that football fans are much the same no matter which team they support. With a few fairly obvious exceptions, and that doesn't include Derby either. When I was much younger I worked for several years in Ilkeston, most of the folk there supported Ilkeston FC first and also Derby as a serious choice. In those days if you wanted to watch seriously good football you went to Derby, they had a great team full of Internationals and the standard of play was terrific, left Forest for dead. Never made any difference to a Forest supporter though, and that's the way I see most football supporters. They have no choice in who owns the club.
And I can't help but notice that Derby aren't doing too badly with Rooney coaching and what we term is a bit of a threadbare team short on players.

In short I'm sorry for their fans and the smaller companies which will lose out.
Who are we going to hate if they do go down.
 
Amidst all the shit swirling about Derby, one thing does occur to me. There is a newish building which i doubt could be used as anything but a football stadium. Regardless of who actually ownes it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.