Democracy

BodyButter

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
I think we all agree that the theory of democracy is wonderful, that we can choose our leaders to represent our interests and protect us, the people, from those who seek to take advantage.

There is disbelief in the liberal media that the American electorate seems set to choose a maniac like Trump who is hell bent on destroying American democracy over a good man working hard in difficult circumstances like Biden.

A lot of Trump's support is coming from those who are sick to death of the corruption within the system. They want the swamp drained and they don't care what it costs. They see the system rigged against them so their tax dollars go to the military industrial complex for wars they don't care about. They see their healthcare bills bankrupting them and the government ineffective in fixing the problem. They see Biden trumpeting the GDP figures while they have to take payday loans to pay the rent.

Nobody in Britain wants these Tories in power. Nobody is that enthusiastic about Starmer being in charge either but those are the choices. Do you want a steaming turd for dinner or a steaming turd with sprinkles on it? Steak? No, that's not an option. You have to choose one of the turds.

Argentina recently voted for a chainsaw welding, 70s haircut fella to try to get out of the turd dilemma. The Dutch voted for Wilders, an obvious grifter, to try to get something different.

We are heading into a prolonged period of economic stagnation caused by our reluctance to bear the financial burden of having kids when most people are struggling to make rent or their mortgage payment. Stagnant wages, stagnant growth, stagnant opportunities are going to make most people feel like they are going backwards and when the majority realise that the ballot box will never provide an alternative, I fear for what is next.
 
BodyButter said:
I think we all agree that the theory of democracy is wonderful, that we can choose our leaders to represent our interests and protect us, the people, from those who seek to take advantage.

There is disbelief in the liberal media that the American electorate seems set to choose a maniac like Trump who is hell bent on destroying American democracy over a good man working hard in difficult circumstances like Biden.

A lot of Trump's support is coming from those who are sick to death of the corruption within the system. They want the swamp drained and they don't care what it costs. They see the system rigged against them so their tax dollars go to the military industrial complex for wars they don't care about. They see their healthcare bills bankrupting them and the government ineffective in fixing the problem. They see Biden trumpeting the GDP figures while they have to take payday loans to pay the rent.

Nobody in Britain wants these Tories in power. Nobody is that enthusiastic about Starmer being in charge either but those are the choices. Do you want a steaming turd for dinner or a steaming turd with sprinkles on it? Steak? No, that's not an option. You have to choose one of the turds.

Argentina recently voted for a chainsaw welding, 70s haircut fella to try to get out of the turd dilemma. The Dutch voted for Wilders, an obvious grifter, to try to get something different.

We are heading into a prolonged period of economic stagnation caused by our reluctance to bear the financial burden of having kids when most people are struggling to make rent or their mortgage payment. Stagnant wages, stagnant growth, stagnant opportunities are going to make most people feel like they are going backwards and when the majority realise that the ballot box will never provide an alternative, I fear for what is next.
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How can we have a democracy when people wet the bed when you have a different point of view or opinion?
 
I don't think it will be too much longer before people start reaching breaking point.

There's only so much you can take getting blasted up the arse by the government.
 
It’s an illusion. Democracy is the new socialism. Look at the UK, you have a police state hell bent on criminalising everything from speech to protest. You have absolutely no “free speech” laws in place. You have two parties who will ultimately continue to protect the interests of the top fractiles of income earners, the people who hold the real power in society.

You have politicians and “wealth creators” doing nothing but looting the state and worsening the living conditions of the majority. There is no democracy here.
 
I think democracy is overrated actually. In the West, it’s taught as the utopia of global politics but it isn’t suitable for many other cultures and nations that would descend into chaos. All these wars where western countries kill millions of innocent lives in what they claim is trying to install democracy into countries such as Afghanistan, is a waste of human life.

Closer to home in the U.K., democracy is relevant at the point where the two big parties go to the polls in the aim to win the biggest share of voters that get them into power. From that point onwards, there isn’t much democratic about one minister per constituency making a decision he or she feels is the right decision for their constituents, as the reality is they are told what to vote for based on what a very few donors or powerful people want.

Imagine if Labour were in charge, with what Israel are doing in Gaza? The party would have blown up, as Starmer plays what could be a Tory leader position with the US whilst the majority of his party end up dissenting.

The other side of the coin is that it’s not feasible to put every decision to the public. The one time we did that recently , a slight majority made a decision to leave the EU, voting on something where I would hazard a guess the majority of the 52% turned up at a voting station without having done any research on what they were voting for, and we all end up suffering the consequences of that vote.

I’m not saying there is something better than democracy out there for the U.K. nor anything I would want, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near as perfect as the text books would have you believe when you are being brainwashed at school.
 
Our system gives us a government that is essentially an elected dictatorship. Once in power the party that won the election, usually with a minority of the total vote but having gained the most seats, can do pretty much as it pleases. Proportional representation might even that out a bit but then you run the risk of parties like Reform or those with a religious demographic, influencing policy or even forming part of a coalition.
Incidentally, any surprises in the Russian election?
 
danvilla2 said:
Closer to home in the U.K., democracy is relevant at the point where the two big parties go to the polls in the aim to win the biggest share of voters that get them into power. From that point onwards, there isn’t much democratic about one minister per constituency making a decision he or she feels is the right decision for their constituents, as the reality is they are told what to vote for based on what a very few donors or powerful people want.
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Same as the states, it's all a game, maybe 1% wants to make a change but the others just want a bit of power, a nice paycheck and a handy life. I've no doubt that more than 1% go into it thinking they can make a change but that's swiftly unbeaten out of them by the career politicians who like things the way they are.

In the west we have it all backwards. A company will sack you if you find a way to automate your position or triple your productivity to the point someone cheaper can do what you were doing plus their own job. The politicians apply this to Government, if you actually fix an issue whats the next platform you'll run on? Maybe run on the fact you can fix problems. They won't do that tho, easier to pick a battle and fight for attrition.

We're a backward bunch.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
Same as the states, it's all a game, maybe 1% wants to make a change but the others just want a bit of power, a nice paycheck and a handy life. I've no doubt that more than 1% go into it thinking they can make a change but that's swiftly unbeaten out of them by the career politicians who like things the way they are.

In the west we have it all backwards. A company will sack you if you find a way to automate your position or triple your productivity to the point someone cheaper can do what you were doing plus their own job. The politicians apply this to Government, if you actually fix an issue whats the next platform you'll run on? Maybe run on the fact you can fix problems. They won't do that tho, easier to pick a battle and fight for attrition.

We're a backward bunch.
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It cracks me up how the Tories bleat on and about immigration which appeals to their voter base. It seems like immigration is a “problem” (let’s call it that for arguments sake) that is getting worse. Perhaps the Tories don’t actually mind it being bad and getting worse in the run up to an election, because it appeals to their base, even though they’ve been the party in power who could’ve made it better.
 
danvilla2 said:
It cracks me up how the Tories bleat on and about immigration which appeals to their voter base. It seems like immigration is a “problem” (let’s call it that for arguments sake) that is getting worse. Perhaps the Tories don’t actually mind it being bad and getting worse in the run up to an election, because it appeals to their base, even though they’ve been the party in power who could’ve made it better.
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It's not immigration per se that's the problem, it just that the numbers have become massive. Latest set shows 700,000 plus. It's not sustainable. They all have needs and the system is creaking at the seams as it is. You can't keep accepting numbers this high without consequences.
 
On immigration, we point blank need the labour, the UK population is aging and the birth rate is too low, so we need more people in to work, there is dire economic need for it.

But I will say this, in a climate where public spending has been cut to shreds, there's a huge immigration burden now. We're seeing too many service users for health and social services. There's not enough money to resource this. Councils across the country are fucked. The solution to this problem is to prioritise public spending and overhauling the tax system, but this is not likely to happen is it?

Unfortunately, I think hardline, anti-immigration politics will become far more front and centre over the next decade.
 
wittonite said:
It's not immigration per se that's the problem, it just that the numbers have become massive. Latest set shows 700,000 plus. It's not sustainable. They all have needs and the system is creaking at the seams as it is. You can't keep accepting numbers this high without consequences.
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If climate change gets to the point they predict then those numbers will probably increase. The great cruelty of it all is that many countries with massive populations will be the most affected e.g. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and parts of China. Its already becoming an issue.

We could do with finding a solution to Putin and Russia because the only two viable places for all those people will be Canada and Russia.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
If climate change gets to the point they predict then those numbers will probably increase. The great cruelty of it all is that many countries with massive populations will be the most affected e.g. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and parts of China. Its already becoming an issue.

We could do with finding a solution to Putin and Russia because the only two viable places for all those people will be Canada and Russia.
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Perhaps I don't understand climate change well enough but I was thinking the same thing. For every place that becomes too hot/wet/bad, there must be another place that becomes more dry/cold/good.

Maybe we should start running busses from Bangladesh up to Siberia?
 
CDX_EIRE said:
If climate change gets to the point they predict then those numbers will probably increase. The great cruelty of it all is that many countries with massive populations will be the most affected e.g. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and parts of China. Its already becoming an issue.

We could do with finding a solution to Putin and Russia because the only two viable places for all those people will be Canada and Russia.
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From an immigrant point of view I don't think Russia would be that attractive. Having said that I have never been to Russia, so it might be wonderful.
 
BodyButter said:
Perhaps I don't understand climate change well enough but I was thinking the same thing. For every place that becomes too hot/wet/bad, there must be another place that becomes more dry/cold/good.

Maybe we should start running busses from Bangladesh up to Siberia?
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Same, I watched a few things about it so I am just regurgitating this and maybe its not that cut and dry. They were explaining America's and Europe's prosperity in relation to Russia and Canada. For agriculture and general living the entirety of the lower 48 sit in the Goldielocks zone. Perfect for living, construction, growing food and so on. Most of Europe is the same but most of russia is just hell for half the year.

That goldielocks zone will move north as the climate heats up and literally like you've posted. The likes of Siberia and the Yukon would become liveable year-round. Thats what they think anyway.
 
wittonite said:
From an immigrant point of view I don't think Russia would be that attractive. Having said that I have never been to Russia, so it might be wonderful.
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In 100 years, the Russian population will be so old that they won't be able to hold the territory they have now. That will be at a time when some parts of it are becoming livable for the first time in a very long time. The Chinese have already made plans for Siberia and have declared themselves to be an Artic nation despite being nowhere near the Artic, at the moment.
 
Aren't China and Russia cosying up to each other as we speak or is this just to antagonize the West and give them something else to think about.
 
wittonite said:
Aren't China and Russia cosying up to each other as we speak or is this just to antagonize the West and give them something else to think about.
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China, Russia, Iran and North Korea all work together because they have no choice. The Americans have made them the enemy and (at least tried to) cut them off from global markets. They aren't really mates, they just have no other friends.

Russia and China have historically had really bad relations but China needs the raw materials and Russia needs someone to sell their raw materials to.
 
BodyButter said:
China, Russia, Iran and North Korea all work together because they have no choice. The Americans have made them the enemy and (at least tried to) cut them off from global markets. They aren't really mates, they just have no other friends.

Russia and China have historically had really bad relations but China needs the raw materials and Russia needs someone to sell their raw materials to.
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And the best of luck to China selling it's consumer crap that keeps its economy afloat to Russia, Iran and North Korea.
 
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