Democracy in the UK...
- Thread starter NottyImp
- Start date
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
If that's the best you can do you're even thicker than I thought. And I currently think you're as thick as Nigel Farage. Which is very thick indeed.
Good try though; better luck next next time.
The EU reference was a bit of side humour for me but it's funny how quickly The UK has acted on this without recourse to tea and biccies over probably 27 meetings and committees, with no resolution in sight. Oh that's because we can now!
Nope the point I was making is how Britain is acting as a democratic and morally responsible sovereign democracy on the world stage which absolutely does not fit your narrative.
Almost Blackadder there with your thick as a thick thing comedy; or is it Python? Anyway I digress.
Nope the point I was making is how Britain is acting as a democratic and morally responsible sovereign democracy on the world stage which absolutely does not fit your narrative.
Almost Blackadder there with your thick as a thick thing comedy; or is it Python? Anyway I digress.
Compare and contrast:
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/br...ing-regulations-northern-echo-reports-3300240
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/12/woman-jailed-council-tax-bill-she-could-not-pay
Good to see there's no special treatment for the "elite", and especially not for Mr Cummings.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/br...ing-regulations-northern-echo-reports-3300240
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/12/woman-jailed-council-tax-bill-she-could-not-pay
Good to see there's no special treatment for the "elite", and especially not for Mr Cummings.
Yes a good example of why reform from top down government to local authority is required.
Common sense is difficult to define but if there was a way of applying it consistently to different areas of law be it civil, criminal, human rights, planning and so on we would live in a much fairer society.
The problem of course is that one person's common sense is another person's extremism. As society has developed and become more sophisticated it explains why for example in criminal law there has been a tendency to move away from simple well established common law to ever tighter statutory acts of parliament. This is to supposedly counteract loop holes and technicalities whilst simultaneously negating any bias or agendas that the adjudicators may hold. .
What then becomes a problem in that the law becomes so specific that people can then exploit such precise definitions. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Cummins has cynically yet legally exploited tight legal definitions whereas the lady had neither the support or resources to cope with her circumstances.
So perhaps on balance we should seek to reign back from tight legislation and look to the simpler concept of common law style legislation which allows for a broader brush and those applying and interpreting the law to apply that common sense. That in conjunction with creating good old fashioned stated cases to cater for the quirks and unique cases that will arise as a result of broader based laws/rules. Theoretically if it were so you could have ended up with opposite polar outcomes to the examples presented here.
The significant caveat is you then need to invest very heavily in procuring judges etc. who are as near to beyond reproach and agenda free as can be humanly possible thereby ensuring genuine fairness and integrity in application of those laws. A very difficult task in it's own right I would suggest.
There are no easy fixes and that is why you will continue to see many cases of apparent injustice where people are left shaking their heads in disbelief at seemingly ridiculous harshness or leniency. It explains why many lawyers will tell you that laws are not actually about justice but are simply there to end the argument; the inference being to draw a line under the grievance regardless of the outcome.
Common sense is difficult to define but if there was a way of applying it consistently to different areas of law be it civil, criminal, human rights, planning and so on we would live in a much fairer society.
The problem of course is that one person's common sense is another person's extremism. As society has developed and become more sophisticated it explains why for example in criminal law there has been a tendency to move away from simple well established common law to ever tighter statutory acts of parliament. This is to supposedly counteract loop holes and technicalities whilst simultaneously negating any bias or agendas that the adjudicators may hold. .
What then becomes a problem in that the law becomes so specific that people can then exploit such precise definitions. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Cummins has cynically yet legally exploited tight legal definitions whereas the lady had neither the support or resources to cope with her circumstances.
So perhaps on balance we should seek to reign back from tight legislation and look to the simpler concept of common law style legislation which allows for a broader brush and those applying and interpreting the law to apply that common sense. That in conjunction with creating good old fashioned stated cases to cater for the quirks and unique cases that will arise as a result of broader based laws/rules. Theoretically if it were so you could have ended up with opposite polar outcomes to the examples presented here.
The significant caveat is you then need to invest very heavily in procuring judges etc. who are as near to beyond reproach and agenda free as can be humanly possible thereby ensuring genuine fairness and integrity in application of those laws. A very difficult task in it's own right I would suggest.
There are no easy fixes and that is why you will continue to see many cases of apparent injustice where people are left shaking their heads in disbelief at seemingly ridiculous harshness or leniency. It explains why many lawyers will tell you that laws are not actually about justice but are simply there to end the argument; the inference being to draw a line under the grievance regardless of the outcome.
Another pissing Brexit bonus:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ed-for-lorry-drivers-delayed-by-brexit-checks
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ed-for-lorry-drivers-delayed-by-brexit-checks
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
EU is definitely flawed.
UK is definitely flawed too.
Whole world, and so on.
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain
Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty
I may be wrong but as I understand it the UK withdrew from Hong Kong as they were required to under the international treaty that they were signed up to. To have not done so would quite properly have led to The UK being ostracised for behaving illegally and in the manner of a colonial and imperial, occupying despot.
Oh the irony...
"Germany, France and Hungary etc. break the laws on issues such as finance and immigration to suit their best interests. The Germans have even stated their court takes precedence over their precious ECJ. Nothing happens or there is a bit of a fine and everybody moves on.
Russia, China etc. routinely break just about every international law going and breach human rights with impunity. No one bats an eyelid and everybody continues to trade with them. Something about it's 'all about the money' that I seem to recall some remainers mentioning before when decrying weak and feeble UK as an independent trading nation."
"Germany, France and Hungary etc. break the laws on issues such as finance and immigration to suit their best interests. The Germans have even stated their court takes precedence over their precious ECJ. Nothing happens or there is a bit of a fine and everybody moves on.
Russia, China etc. routinely break just about every international law going and breach human rights with impunity. No one bats an eyelid and everybody continues to trade with them. Something about it's 'all about the money' that I seem to recall some remainers mentioning before when decrying weak and feeble UK as an independent trading nation."
I don't follow your irony. The UK has been ostracised by a number of posters for being variously undemocratic, unable to act independently outside of the mighty federal EU, a colonial, endemically racist and self serving nation. That is simply not a fair or full reflection of the UK I recognise (without going off at an extensive tangent).
The examples I have referenced i.e. Belarus and China are clear counter points to those that would seek to constantly denigrate the UK; nothing more nothing less.
A financial relevance connection, is that what you are implying? If it is I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I am referencing. I'm pleased to provide clarity.
The examples I have referenced i.e. Belarus and China are clear counter points to those that would seek to constantly denigrate the UK; nothing more nothing less.
A financial relevance connection, is that what you are implying? If it is I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I am referencing. I'm pleased to provide clarity.
Last time I checked, England was busy breaking international law and planning to fuck over Ireland, Wales and Scotland.
The England I see has no moral high-ground to occupy.
The Windrush scandal proves that absolutely. A despicable, dishonest state that majors in hypocrisy. And I say that, sadly, as an Englishman.
The England I see has no moral high-ground to occupy.
The Windrush scandal proves that absolutely. A despicable, dishonest state that majors in hypocrisy. And I say that, sadly, as an Englishman.
