Democracy in the UK... | Page 40 | Vital Football

Democracy in the UK...

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Another example of Liz Truss's (and this government as a whole's) incompetence in signing up to something that runs contrary to what the Brexit team are negotiating for. I can see a lot of trouble on the horizon with us agreeing contradictory bilateral trade deals.
Brexit was aleays a fantasy for fools with less sense than a half-informed simpleton.

Just read Hulloupost's contribution for an object lesson in retarded political thinking.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Brexit was aleays a fantasy for fools with less sense than a half-informed simpleton.

Just read Hulloupost's contribution for an object lesson in retarded political thinking.
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.

Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain

Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty :wave:
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.

Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain

Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty :wave:
Took a quick peek. Nothing to do with Brexit and nothing to do with my 'narrative'.

If that's the best you can do you're even thicker than I thought. And I currently think you're as thick as Nigel Farage. Which is very thick indeed.

Good try though; better luck next next time.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Took a quick peek. Nothing to do with Brexit and nothing to do with my 'narrative'.

If that's the best you can do you're even thicker than I thought. And I currently think you're as thick as Nigel Farage. Which is very thick indeed.

Good try though; better luck next next time.
The EU reference was a bit of side humour for me but it's funny how quickly The UK has acted on this without recourse to tea and biccies over probably 27 meetings and committees, with no resolution in sight. Oh that's because we can now!

Nope the point I was making is how Britain is acting as a democratic and morally responsible sovereign democracy on the world stage which absolutely does not fit your narrative.

Almost Blackadder there with your thick as a thick thing comedy; or is it Python? Anyway I digress.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Yes a good example of why reform from top down government to local authority is required.

Common sense is difficult to define but if there was a way of applying it consistently to different areas of law be it civil, criminal, human rights, planning and so on we would live in a much fairer society.

The problem of course is that one person's common sense is another person's extremism. As society has developed and become more sophisticated it explains why for example in criminal law there has been a tendency to move away from simple well established common law to ever tighter statutory acts of parliament. This is to supposedly counteract loop holes and technicalities whilst simultaneously negating any bias or agendas that the adjudicators may hold. .

What then becomes a problem in that the law becomes so specific that people can then exploit such precise definitions. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Cummins has cynically yet legally exploited tight legal definitions whereas the lady had neither the support or resources to cope with her circumstances.

So perhaps on balance we should seek to reign back from tight legislation and look to the simpler concept of common law style legislation which allows for a broader brush and those applying and interpreting the law to apply that common sense. That in conjunction with creating good old fashioned stated cases to cater for the quirks and unique cases that will arise as a result of broader based laws/rules. Theoretically if it were so you could have ended up with opposite polar outcomes to the examples presented here.

The significant caveat is you then need to invest very heavily in procuring judges etc. who are as near to beyond reproach and agenda free as can be humanly possible thereby ensuring genuine fairness and integrity in application of those laws. A very difficult task in it's own right I would suggest.

There are no easy fixes and that is why you will continue to see many cases of apparent injustice where people are left shaking their heads in disbelief at seemingly ridiculous harshness or leniency. It explains why many lawyers will tell you that laws are not actually about justice but are simply there to end the argument; the inference being to draw a line under the grievance regardless of the outcome.
 

HoofGrantBrown

Vital Reserves Team
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.

Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain

Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty :wave:
Very good point.
EU is definitely flawed.
UK is definitely flawed too.
Whole world, and so on.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
Good to have you back Notty, the door always remains open for adult debate should you choose to partake. Let me know when you do.

Following on from Britain's previous strong stance on China's disgraceful treatment of Hong Kong's citizens and stunning magnanimous offer to give British citizenship to all, we now have another example of prompt, morally commendable action by our free sovereign state.
Even Guy is imploding at the oh so predictable dithering on the part of The EU

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...raffic.outbrain&int_campaign=traffic.outbrain

Sorry if it doesn't fit your narrative notty :wave:
Remind me who sold the people of Hong Kong down the river in the first place?
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Remind me who sold the people of Hong Kong down the river in the first place?
I may be wrong but as I understand it the UK withdrew from Hong Kong as they were required to under the international treaty that they were signed up to. To have not done so would quite properly have led to The UK being ostracised for behaving illegally and in the manner of a colonial and imperial, occupying despot.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
I may be wrong but as I understand it the UK withdrew from Hong Kong as they were required to under the international treaty that they were signed up to. To have not done so would quite properly have led to The UK being ostracised for behaving illegally and in the manner of a colonial and imperial, occupying despot.
Oh the irony...

"Germany, France and Hungary etc. break the laws on issues such as finance and immigration to suit their best interests. The Germans have even stated their court takes precedence over their precious ECJ. Nothing happens or there is a bit of a fine and everybody moves on.

Russia, China etc. routinely break just about every international law going and breach human rights with impunity. No one bats an eyelid and everybody continues to trade with them. Something about it's 'all about the money' that I seem to recall some remainers mentioning before when decrying weak and feeble UK as an independent trading nation."
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
Oh the irony...

"Germany, France and Hungary etc. break the laws on issues such as finance and immigration to suit their best interests. The Germans have even stated their court takes precedence over their precious ECJ. Nothing happens or there is a bit of a fine and everybody moves on.

Russia, China etc. routinely break just about every international law going and breach human rights with impunity. No one bats an eyelid and everybody continues to trade with them. Something about it's 'all about the money' that I seem to recall some remainers mentioning before when decrying weak and feeble UK as an independent trading nation."
I don't follow your irony. The UK has been ostracised by a number of posters for being variously undemocratic, unable to act independently outside of the mighty federal EU, a colonial, endemically racist and self serving nation. That is simply not a fair or full reflection of the UK I recognise (without going off at an extensive tangent).

The examples I have referenced i.e. Belarus and China are clear counter points to those that would seek to constantly denigrate the UK; nothing more nothing less.

A financial relevance connection, is that what you are implying? If it is I'm sorry that you have misunderstood what I am referencing. I'm pleased to provide clarity.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Last time I checked, England was busy breaking international law and planning to fuck over Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

The England I see has no moral high-ground to occupy.

The Windrush scandal proves that absolutely. A despicable, dishonest state that majors in hypocrisy. And I say that, sadly, as an Englishman.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
Just out of interest do you personally feel that The UK should have remained in Hong Kong as an occupying colonial power in breach of international law?
I think they should have got some agreement with China that was backed by the international community with some level of sanction that actually meant something.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Seriously, does anyone one on here - apart from Hully - believe this English exceptionalism bullshit?

I mean, seriously, it's the simplistic thinking of a retard whatever your political persuasion, right or left.

Utterly absurd.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
I can't imagine even extreme right-wing dingbats like harry57, Imp79 (aka Swedishimp) or Rokerite have such a deranged view of English politics.
 

hulloutpost

Vital Football Hero
I think they should have got some agreement with China that was backed by the international community with some level of sanction that actually meant something.
Fair enough, and I would say that my understanding is that The UK did seek and were given reassurances of safe guards which the Chinese reneged on; hence the response from the UK.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
Fair enough, and I would say that my understanding is that The UK did seek and were given reassurances of safe guards which the Chinese reneged on; hence the response from the UK.
And we have recently reneged on a binding agreement with the EU thus breaking international law.

We're no better than China. Cease your English exceptionalist bullshit.