Death Penalty. Yes or No.
- Thread starter astonion
- Start date
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
So why does rehab treatment for them and sex offenders involve counsellors telling them that their outlook on life isn't wrong, it's just different from current socially acceptable norms and if they want to live nicely in society they have to adopt those thoughts.
Which I suppose is a polite way of saying don't get caught next time and keep it quiet.
Or of course flipping it completely on it's lid, it wasn't that long ago that that marrying off 9 year olds so they were pregnant by 11 was part of the common culture even in this country. So it's not severe mental illness.
Society just expects different things now because we have a longer life span and we've invented 'childhood' before 'adulthood'.
We call it mental illness because we don't want to address the fact that it's our past just as we don't class ourselves as terrorists despite the countries we still subvert for our own means.
mike_field
Vital Football Legend
And if that doesn't put the cat amongst the pigeons I'm giving up PMSL
James06
Vital Football Legend
It's the lack of control that makes them mentally ill. How many people have fingered a girl under 16, when they themselves were over 16? Hands up, I'll confess I have, and so have all my mates. Would I do it now? Of course not, but I'm not a rampant 17 year old with a constant dripping hard on anymore (shame!). I can control my desires and respect others. Some people can't because they are nuts, and don't get me wrong you can't have these people walking the streets, but I also quite strongly think that we can't just execute them.
kefkat
Vital Football Legend
As Jim says as in alot of cases these things can be stopped. The do gooders, the people who could have done something about the Daniel case didn't. They must have known something was wrong. Well they did, but did nothing. They should also be facing some sort of discipline as that is why we have these people so when a family breaks down they can see and put measures in place.
I have read nothing more than brief headlines about this case as it made me feel sick I couldn't read it. However my friend did tell me up to 6 months before none of this was happening. The professionals and agencies new something wasn't right and they have a duty of care to step in. They didn't. They are equally as responsible if not more
I have read nothing more than brief headlines about this case as it made me feel sick I couldn't read it. However my friend did tell me up to 6 months before none of this was happening. The professionals and agencies new something wasn't right and they have a duty of care to step in. They didn't. They are equally as responsible if not more
Juan Mourep
Vital 1st Team Regular
I think it's pretty hypocritical to say how wrong it is to take a life, yet champion a lifetime of torture, while having a pop at Islam in another post for the way they treat their prisoners!
That just stood out in this thread for me :16: :39:
Death penalty, the instant release from further suffering, a get out of jail free card.
It's obviously not a deterrent in the good ol US of A, and who has the right to take someone else's life? Who get's to play God? Who gives themselves the right to order such an action? Beyond who's definition of "reasonable doubt"? What categories of crime fall under this sentence? Where do you draw the line, is a life destroyed, as much a crime as a life taken? Does mental illness stand as a defence? In reality anyone who commits acts that cause mass outrage must have some sort of mental problem, mustn't they? Should they even be in prison?
We have to ask ourselves if it's just vengeance we seek?
That just stood out in this thread for me :16: :39:
Death penalty, the instant release from further suffering, a get out of jail free card.
It's obviously not a deterrent in the good ol US of A, and who has the right to take someone else's life? Who get's to play God? Who gives themselves the right to order such an action? Beyond who's definition of "reasonable doubt"? What categories of crime fall under this sentence? Where do you draw the line, is a life destroyed, as much a crime as a life taken? Does mental illness stand as a defence? In reality anyone who commits acts that cause mass outrage must have some sort of mental problem, mustn't they? Should they even be in prison?
We have to ask ourselves if it's just vengeance we seek?
R-Evolutionary
Vital Newbie
Fair points, but even you must admit that there are people out there who are just oxygen thieves and many others who it would be kinder to put to sleep, gingers for instance.
Villa_Grizzly
Vital Squad Member
I used to write to Troy when he was on Death Row in Georgia. I head about the case through Amnesty International. The case garnered international attention owing to the tireless work of his sister, Martina, who died of Breast Cancer not long after his execution. Troy maintained his positivity, love, humility and faith to the end.
He had previously survived the death chamber twice, once coming within about 20 minutes of being executed. He lived in a hell hole for 18 years which he often wrote about.
The reality of this case is that no one really knew what happened that night in the parking lot and that is not a basis on which to execute anyone.
I believed in his innocence as his case for innocence was incredibly strong. The idea he spent 18 years in hell for something he did not do because of a fallible system only to be taken out one day and executed is once I find barbaric.
There was no physical evidence, there was only speculative ballistic evidence that was completely discredited. The case, in the end, rested on eye witness testimony and technicalities. 8 out of the ten witnesses later recanted their testimony, have stated that they were coerced or threatened by Police. Also, the technical legal standard for proving innocence at a later hearing was much higher than that for establishing his guilt. Finality prevailed not fairness which is what Justice should be about.
This case represents all the problems with the Death Penalty. This case became about the validity of a bankrupt and flawed legal process; about those involved in it. It should be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There were so many errors and issues in this case and such a strong possibility of innocence that executing him was inexcusable. (The Todd Willingham case was equally disturbing.)
If you do believe in the death penalty then you need to be able to demonstrate a cast iron legal, penal and forensic basis on which it can be maintained. No such system exists. Thus, the danger of executing someone innocent should immediate invalidate its worth, that is if you care about innocence.
I am not some 'namby-pamby' liberal. I am interested more in the human rights and well being of those involved in this process. You cannot ask those who work within a penal system to kill on your behalf when you cannot ensure moral or legal certainty. I'm not even sure you can expect them to engage in state-sanctioned pre-mediated homicide when the psychological effects on those who engage in executions are already well documented.
I am currently far more interested in bringing the political and financial criminals who bankrupted our nation, to justice than dropping some sadistic, murdering narcissist through a hole. As long as people are securely locked up and society is safe then the penal system is doing its job.
I use one of the cards Troy sent me as a bookmark for my bible. It reminds of the difference between vengeance and justice; of the effects of the death penalty on everybody involved.
