Now we are narrowing it down to the last 3 years, Poch joined us before the start of 2014/15 season. He was the manager when Alli signed Jan 2015, Toby signed start 2015 season, Son signed summer 2015, Trippier signed Summer 2015 which was the start of second season. Excluding them because they don't fit your narrative is hardly being balanced.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
I make it 23 signings during his tenure, 14 on the good side, some exceptional within that. 9 flops.
D
Deleted member 7310
Guest
It is you who is twisting arguments to fit your narrative, not me. My post clearly states 3 years. so I am not narrowing it down "now".
Poch has been here for 4.5 years, that is correct, but 3 years is always a good measure, especially in this case. During this time he had 5 transfer windows, 1 was great, 3 were utter failures, and in one he couldn't identify a single footballer on earth to improve the squad. How's that for narrative?
3 years ago we were in the title hunt, missed out to Leicester. Then we continually failed to capitalize and build on our success that Poch initially built. We wasted almost 150 million in shit signings, lost another title race and 2 chances to win the FA.
This season, we would be lucky to finish top 4, but you cant see the correlation because apparently we need to factor in 100 years of transfer history. The correlation is crystal clear, but that doesn't fit YOUR narrative now, does it?
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
How good a signing can you make on a tight budget paying lower wages ? It takes more creativity and risk taking to find suitable players than just stumping up 100 million plus and paying 300 k per week wages for a player.
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
Not much judging by their current performance levels.
Harry-Kari
Vital 1st Team Regular
Bigger clubs have better scouting networks and they probably wouldn’t be over interested in Poch’s views.
Real Deal
Alert Team
I get that Poch has the final say on transfer buys. I can't see how between numerous people they can agree on a price for a player in transfers and wages. No wonder we rarely sign anyone good with shit tactics like that going on.
Sounds like Poch is going all Wenger in the transfer market and Levy still being the main negotiator, recipe for failure.
How much was our budget? How much was Gomes going for? I know we offered around 40m last year for him.
Real Deal
Alert Team
The rumours were we could have had Grealish for around 20m early summer. Which was fair. With better planning maybe we would have signed him.
Is he worth more? Not for me he wasn't. I wanted Maddison and said so over a year ago.
I get what you are saying some players are just not worth paying over the odds for. That isn't the issue. The issue is we seem to put our efforts in a small pool of players when there are plenty out there that would improve us. For good prices as well.
My apologies Polo, I did overlook your reference to 3 season in your original post.
Everyone is frustrated, with one or two right signings we could have been serious challengers, but in our current financial position I don't believe it is as easy as some would like to think.
We slate the club when they get it wrong, so it is no wonder they may be a little cautious in the market.
While I agree Maddison looks a steel, there is no guarantee that we could have got him. His view on the club is well documented, and even if he had arrived who is to say he would have fitted in as well. He may not even had have to move house playing for Leicester
muttley
Alert Team
It's interesting looking at the 25 man squad.....
1) Academy progression - Kane, Winks, KWP
2) At club before Poch arrived - Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, Eriksen
3) Poch's early signings - Vorm, Davies, Trips, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Dele, Son (plus the ones who have come and already gone)
4) Poch's latter signings - Gazza, Aurier, Foyth, Sanchez, Sissoko, N'Koudou, Moura, Llorente, Janssen
What's clear is that Poch needs to work through the process again of which ones in the last group will make the grade. He's done that before every year and that's normally left us with decent 1st teamers. My guess is when the others have long gone we'll appreciate Aurier, Sanchez, Foyth and Moura in the same way we do the rest of the squad. The others will fall by the wayside. For me, this is just the normal process we go through to build a decent squad. I'm way more concerned about the guys in the 2nd and 3rd groups not signing contracts. That leaves 2 problems and then it gets ugly.
1) Academy progression - Kane, Winks, KWP
2) At club before Poch arrived - Lloris, Vertonghen, Rose, Dembele, Lamela, Eriksen
3) Poch's early signings - Vorm, Davies, Trips, Toby, Dier, Wanyama, Dele, Son (plus the ones who have come and already gone)
4) Poch's latter signings - Gazza, Aurier, Foyth, Sanchez, Sissoko, N'Koudou, Moura, Llorente, Janssen
What's clear is that Poch needs to work through the process again of which ones in the last group will make the grade. He's done that before every year and that's normally left us with decent 1st teamers. My guess is when the others have long gone we'll appreciate Aurier, Sanchez, Foyth and Moura in the same way we do the rest of the squad. The others will fall by the wayside. For me, this is just the normal process we go through to build a decent squad. I'm way more concerned about the guys in the 2nd and 3rd groups not signing contracts. That leaves 2 problems and then it gets ugly.
Critical_Spur
Vital Football Hero
Muttley, re. your No. 1 in the list...
TBH, The conception that Poch gives youth a chance has somewhat worn off of me. Kane was brought in 1st team by Tim, Winks got promoted about 18 months ago. Mason, Carol sold off, some loaned out, Edwards thrown under the bus, one kid jetted off to Germany, Pritchard was supposed to have been the next gem off our production line, Hotby had a great pre-season but moved on.
KWP has been around the 1st team for almost 18 months but not had much look in. In fact Onomah had more minutes on the pitch (before his loan) than KWP.
So, no academy promotions, no new signings, existing players knackered or injured. I am not holding my breath for any miracles in the January window, the time when there are higher inflationary pressures and even less availability.
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
Poch has spoken about us being in CL positions regularly making it harder to promote youth.
I'm guessing the club didn't think KWP was ready to step up when Walker left, hence buying Aurier who has been less consistent than KWP.
I'm guessing the club didn't think KWP was ready to step up when Walker left, hence buying Aurier who has been less consistent than KWP.
Nick Real Deal
Vital Football Legend
Amos was pushing for a place but is out long term now. Skipp could be the next breakthrough. CCV and Onamah so far doing ok, Edwards too but has a mentality problem which I hope he grows out of.
D
Deleted member 7310
Guest
For some reason I was 100% sure that GKN was out on loan.
The lad never got a chance, and with all the injury issues I am surprised he didn't get a single minute, even in the cup game.
The lad never got a chance, and with all the injury issues I am surprised he didn't get a single minute, even in the cup game.
D
Deleted member 7310
Guest
If Liverpool can promote Alexander Arnold and trust Roberston, so can we. Some players are ready sooner than others, but leaving a player to rot on the bench instead of giving them game time is the worst thing you can do for their development.
KWP is more than ready, he looked great in the PL matches he played last season and he could have been utilised in cup games. Promoting him as a backup RB would have been the exact way to do it, and the money we put on Aurier could have been used to strengthen another position.
The idea that a team of our financial caliber can, and needs at least 2 senior players for each spot is out of touch, and frankly goes against Poch's youth myth.
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
I agree on KWP. Just stating what I think happened.
Greavesaboveall
Vital Youth Team
Poch got his big pay rise ,maybe he is happy to dance to Levy's tune.
' I got plenty of nothing & nothing is plenty for me'.
' I got plenty of nothing & nothing is plenty for me'.
muttley
Alert Team
Actually, not sure I agree yet. Saw a fair bit of KWP in pre-season and the jury was out. There's obviously a couple of things with him. The first is that he looks more suited to the RWB role and clearly excelled at that at the start and end of the season. He loves to get forward. However, when he has to play as an orthodox left back he doesn't look ready. We've barely seen him as an orthodox RB but his strength and position sense would need to be better than his LB experiences in pre-season.
He just needs to trust Poch.
LOL well if the starters are not getting the job done and we are not going to sign ANYONE, then why not give some our young dudes a shot? Seems logical to me, but common sense may not apply anymore.
Said it before...we missed the opportunity many times over to improve upon an already solid core. Now I believe many of that core either see the writing on the wall and are priming to depart, or simply as are as good as they are going to get without any better supporting cast. (or are perpetually injured now)
Said it before...we missed the opportunity many times over to improve upon an already solid core. Now I believe many of that core either see the writing on the wall and are priming to depart, or simply as are as good as they are going to get without any better supporting cast. (or are perpetually injured now)
