Dan ndoye

[mao tse tung]

He never looked like troubling their fullback on Sunday. He was right infront of me

Savona on the other hand...they were targeting him .

Yes, Jock

He was targetted throughout and particularly for their first goal.

De Cuyper ran into the space behind Milenkovic, who was already marking one player, and Savona did not spot it; he should have been aware to that happening.

It was not the first time that happened during the first half

 

[the jock]

Yes, Jock

He was targetted throughout and particularly for their first goal.

De Cuyper ran into the space behind Milenkovic, who was already marking one player, and Savona did not spot it; he should have been aware to that happening.

It was not the first time that happened during the first half

i saw/heard Dyche saying to Woan - "thats the 4th time"

 

[Basha73]

One


One goal and one assist in the league means that nobody’s had to eat humble pie at all. He’s been no better than I expected or suggested he’d be.

I’m still waiting for you to tell me what he does well in an attacking sense?

Really? The people who were insisting he was shit stopped after a while but one half time substitution and he is back to being useless.

How many goals have any of our other players scored? How many assists? Not to mention how well the player he replaced has done at his new club.

If you can’t see what he brings to the side in both defensive and attacking terms then there is nothing I can say to you beyond reiterating that 3 different managers seem to rate him so I do not see what you are seeing or not seeing…

 

[mao tse tung]

My issue with NDoye is I’m not convinced he’s going to be any better than he’s produced so far AND throughout his career, which is what I argued about in the summer.

He scored 8 goals last season in serie A for Bologna and got 4 assists (a considerably slower league), 0 goals or assists in 8 UCL games, which isn’t bad… but it’s not great either for £35m. Their fans were hardly gutted he left, which i thought was interesting given the team he played for.

Before that, he’s never got more than 4 goals in a season and that was in the Swiss league. I just don’t get why everyone thinks a 25 year old with a very modest career to date, who isn’t exactly performing particularly differently to last year, is waiting to burst into life. I hope I’m wrong but I think this is him… not terrible, but to me a back up £10m winger at best.

Yes, there are examples of Forest getting more out of players like Elanga and CHO, but Elanga was very young, rapid and had raw ability and CHO was once a young superstar who came as a calculated risk at £3m. Ndoye i don’t think has the attributes to be miles better than he currently is. He’s not particularly quick… or certainly never seems to beat his full back, his crossing is very poor I feel and while his finishing isn’t ‘bad’, he never looks to me like somebody who might produce some magic.

It’s not that I hate him, and I don’t even mind him being in the squad, but I don’t why we need to pretend he’s not been highly disappointing

Thats fair comment, Will, but I think people rush into judging a player without giving them any time to settle in whatsoever.

Elanga only played in fits and starts during his first season.

Williams looked poor during his first season.

Wood was totally written off before he kicked a ball for us

Kallimuendo has been written off and yet it transpires he has been suffering with injury issues since he arrived and has struggled to settle.

Jesus looked like a Circus performer in those pre season freindlies; look at him now.

Players need time, and some need more time than others

 

[mao tse tung]

Really? The people who were insisting he was shit stopped after a while but one half time substitution and he is back to being useless.

How many goals have any of our other players scored? How many assists? Not to mention how well the player he replaced has done at his new club.

If you can’t see what he brings to the side in both defensive and attacking terms then there is nothing I can say to you beyond reiterating that 3 different managers seem to rate him so I do not see what you are seeing or not seeing…

Brighton came with a game plan and executed it extremely well.

They are a very good side.

We are still a work in progress and it showed.

 

[Basha73]

i saw/heard Dyche saying to Woan - "thats the 4th time"

Savona has ability and physicality but zero pace. That can be overcome with positional awareness. He obviously needs help in that department either from someone on the pitch and/or in training.

If that can be sorted he could be a very good player but I still think he will end up as a centre back long term.

 

[Basha73]

Brighton came with a game plan and executed it extremely well.

They are a very good side.

We are still a work in progress and it showed.

They targeted Savona on the right and Morato on the left, deliberately playing on their lack of pace.

On the flip side their defence was solid and even when Hutch was on and creating chances they were mopping everything up.

 

[Will.NFFC]

Thats fair comment, Will, but I think people rush into judging a player without giving them any time to settle in whatsoever.

Elanga only played in fits and starts during his first season.

Williams looked poor during his first season.

Wood was totally written off before he kicked a ball for us

Kallimuendo has been written off and yet it transpires he has been suffering with injury issues since he arrived and has struggled to settle.

Jesus looked like a Circus performer in those pre season freindlies; look at him now.

Players need time, and some need more time than others

I agree with all of this Mao, and I admit saying he’d flop in the summer is very harsh… but I don’t think I’ll be wrong - I’m merely commenting on what i see on the Ndoye thread. Since he’s actually played for us, I don’t think I’ve heavily criticized him or said bomb him out… I’ve merely said he’s not showing signs he’s good enough and he’s not put in a single full performance against quality opposition to make me really change my mind on what I said the day he signed.

Im not saying he’s never done anything good in games for us, nor am I saying he won’t do anything good, but I just don’t see it with him. I think he’s playing at his level because I don’t see how you can ‘improve’ your speed, become ‘more skilful’ or suddenly learn how to cross. Maybe the latter but if he’s not doing it at 25 then I can’t see him doing it later on…. And he’s not playing differently to how he did at Bologna.

People love to make excuses for players but Hutchinson has looked a far better player in just about every attribute for a winger purely coming off the bench than Ndoye has starting most games.

Okay we can blame change of manager… but a wingers a winger, and no manager stops you from delivering good crosses or beating a man. Hutchinson has done that immediately. CHO has been out of sorts as well and I’d be saying the same about him if not for his past contribution.

Let’s see what happens with him but he needs to improve quickly for me as he’s a real weak link at the moment

 

[Red.Eagle3]

Really? The people who were insisting he was shit stopped after a while but one half time substitution and he is back to being useless.

How many goals have any of our other players scored? How many assists? Not to mention how well the player he replaced has done at his new club.

If you can’t see what he brings to the side in both defensive and attacking terms then there is nothing I can say to you beyond reiterating that 3 different managers seem to rate him so I do not see what you are seeing or not seeing…

The managers didn’t really have too much of a choice tbf. They all mostly play two wingers and a lot of the time, we’ve only had two wingers available…Better to judge what happens over the next few weeks if hutch continues to progress and bakwa is anything close to what we are all hoping…

 

[Will.NFFC]

Really? The people who were insisting he was shit stopped after a while but one half time substitution and he is back to being useless.

How many goals have any of our other players scored? How many assists? Not to mention how well the player he replaced has done at his new club.

If you can’t see what he brings to the side in both defensive and attacking terms then there is nothing I can say to you beyond reiterating that 3 different managers seem to rate him so I do not see what you are seeing or not seeing…

I stopped because I accept I was harsh in the summer but my opinion hasn’t changed one bit… I think he’ll flop. Not in a terrible way, just that he’s not at the level we want to be at.

You’re mentioning other players - I agree, poor returns, but sadly for Ndoye, MGW, CHO and Wood have credit in the bank… how many attackers have started as many games as Ndoye has? He’s started the most and his return is shit - simple as that. He’s only started all these games because CHO was injured, Bakwa injured and even MGW was injured. Hutchinson is a mystery but cannot play in Europe. It’s hardly because Ndoye set the world alight if that’s the angle.

Again, Elanga…. Don’t care what he does for Newcastle… I care what Ndoye does for us.

So I’ll ask again, what does he do for us in attacking sense?

 

[Red.Eagle3]

Savona has ability and physicality but zero pace. That can be overcome with positional awareness. He obviously needs help in that department either from someone on the pitch and/or in training.

If that can be sorted he could be a very good player but I still think he will end up as a centre back long term.

I like savona and think he’s done ok and probably more to come. For me though, the number one priority in the prem is to be an athlete and with that lack of pace, unless you have franco baresi positioning, you’re going to get targetted every week.

 

[Basha73]

The managers didn’t really have too much of a choice tbf. They all mostly play two wingers and a lot of the time, we’ve only had two wingers available…Better to judge what happens over the next few weeks if hutch continues to progress and bakwa is anything close to what we are all hoping…

There have been plenty of times where the manager had alternatives - Bakwa, Hutch, CHO even Kali or Jesus who can both play wide as can McAtee and MGW. Through all of that, Ndoye has been picked consistently because the people who see him every day in training think he is our best option.

 

[Basha73]

I like savona and think he’s done ok and probably more to come. For me though, the number one priority in the prem is to be an athlete and with that lack of pace, unless you have franco baresi positioning, you’re going to get targetted every week.

Absolutely. Hopefully he is already learning from it but it will be interesting to see what Dyche is allowed to do in the January window.

 

[Lienking]

Nor could CHO until this season

Now CHO needs to learn how to cross with his left foot if he does go wide of course

I currently prefer Ndoye to CHO

But i like them both tbh

Hutchinson though could be a superstar and our next England international

Hutchinson should be given a go on the right, particulary in the league games before the Europa games (when he can't play anyway). I would give Ndoye the place on the left, in preference to CHO, and bring CHO on later when the opposition are tiring.

 

[the jock]

a fit chris wood uptop will score goals with hutchinson out wide.

he has the brain and positional sense to be in the right place.

 

[Basha73]

I stopped because I accept I was harsh in the summer but my opinion hasn’t changed one bit… I think he’ll flop. Not in a terrible way, just that he’s not at the level we want to be at.

You’re mentioning other players - I agree, poor returns, but sadly for Ndoye, MGW, CHO and Wood have credit in the bank… how many attackers have started as many games as Ndoye has? He’s started the most and his return is shit - simple as that. He’s only started all these games because CHO was injured, Bakwa injured and even MGW was injured. Hutchinson is a mystery but cannot play in Europe. It’s hardly because Ndoye set the world alight if that’s the angle.

Again, Elanga…. Don’t care what he does for Newcastle… I care what Ndoye does for us.

So I’ll ask again, what does he do for us in attacking sense?

Do McAtee, Kali, Bakwa or Jesus have credit in the bank? Zinchenko? Luiz? What have they done to be exempt? It seems that Hutchinson is exempt because he attacks but Ndoye who is a different player isn’t just because he doesn’t attack enough for your liking.

I have already said what I think he does well going forwards but you don’t want to accept it.

 

[the jock]

it can click suddenly.

look at matty cash. alot of people were slating him. he moved to right back and it all changed for him.

 

[finbar70]

Savona has ability and physicality but zero pace. That can be overcome with positional awareness. He obviously needs help in that department either from someone on the pitch and/or in training.

If that can be sorted he could be a very good player but I still think he will end up as a centre back long term.

I am no fan of Savona but I have said from day 1 he likes a CB, and I think he could be a very, very good CB. He doesnt have enough 'football' ability to be an effective FB.

Having said that, and despite Brighton targeting him, I thought he stood up very, very well on Sunday and grew into the contest. What we are not appreciating, is that the first 20 mins from Brighton were exceptional, and flawlessly executed (without scoring). That 20 minute spell was the best I've seen any team play against us. The fact on balance for the next 70 mins it was equal, is a credit to us. They are a good team

 

[finbar70]

Maybe Ndoye isnt really a true winger like the other 3, and more of a versatile forward? Who knows, but he has talent, all of our buys have talent and I still dont think we will see the benefits of Kali, McAtee, Bakwa or Ndoye fully until next season.

Jesus being the exception. He's doing well and will just get better.

 

[the jock]

Maybe Ndoye isnt really a true winger like the other 3, and more of a versatile forward? Who knows, but he has talent, all of our buys have talent and I still dont think we will see the benefits of Kali, McAtee, Bakwa or Ndoye fully until next season.

Jesus being the exception. He's doing well and will just get better.

the concern i have - similar was said about Sosa and Jota silva around this time last year. scarpa before that.

if they dont start very well - they are generally gone the following summer.