D*rby to be relegated? | Page 272 | Vital Football

D*rby to be relegated?

Lienking said:
The debt on the ground is still separate to Derby County. And to think Basha spent about a week arguing with me saying it wouldn't be possible for the new ground owners to have the debt transferred over to them !
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They didn’t, genius. They bought the ground which paid off the charge which was registered against the asset. That is how Charging Orders work.

It is exactly the same as when you buy a house from someone. If the seller has a mortgage it means they have a charge against their property. When the funds transfer from the buyer’s solicitors to the sellers, the first thing they do is pay off any charges.

So in this instance Mel owned the ground. MSD had a charge against the ground for around £23m to cover the loans that Mel had guaranteed.

Clowes bought the Stadium and that paid off MSD. No other debt has been touched or transferred so you are talking bollocks again.

But then what do I know, I have only worked with Charging Orders and Properties for 15 years…
 
Basha73 said:
They didn’t, genius. They bought the ground which paid off the charge which was registered against the asset. That is how Charging Orders work.

It is exactly the same as when you buy a house from someone. If the seller has a mortgage it means they have a charge against their property. When the funds transfer from the buyer’s solicitors to the sellers, the first thing they do is pay off any charges.

So in this instance Mel owned the ground. MSD had a charge against the ground for around £23m to cover the loans that Mel had guaranteed.

Clowes bought the Stadium and that paid off MSD. No other debt has been touched or transferred so you are talking bollocks again.

But then what do I know, I have only worked with Charging Orders and Properties for 15 years…
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I haven't read what's happened, but someone said that Clowes had simply bought the company that owned the ground, along with the debt staying with the company. No idea if that isn't true, if you're saying that didn't happen. I've worked in limited companies for over 40 years, where companies have been sold , along with their debts etc . Generally not difficult to do as long as the asset is still owned by the same people as the secured debt.
 
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Lienking said:
I haven't read what's happened, but someone said that Clowes had simply bought the company that owned the ground, along with the debt staying with the company. No idea if that isn't true, if you're saying that didn't happen. I've worked in limited companies for over 40 years, where companies have been sold , along with their debts etc . Generally not difficult to do as long as the asset is still owned by the same people as the secured debt.
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Mel Morris owned Derby County. He also owned Pride Park. Originally he owned them both as part of one Company.

When he sold the ground to himself he did so by creating a new company and selling it from the Company who owned Derby to the new company.

That meant Mel owned two companies - one that owned the club and one that owned the ground.

Because he acted as guarantor for the MSD loans, it allowed MSD to register a charge against his asset(s) for those loans.

Clowes so far has bought Pride Park by buying the company that owns it. That Company is totally separate to the company that owns Derby County.

So Clowes now owns Pride Park and the loan to MSD will have been paid off. Clowes does not currently own Derby County and could theoretically walk away now the proud owner of a football stadium. Or he can buy Derby County and put the two companies back together.

As he has given Derby an operating loan, it looks like he will try to do the latter but as yet nothing else has happened and no debt has been paid off except the one registered against the ground.

Strangely enough this is exactly what I was saying all along so next time you want to make a snide comment, make sure you are right because right now you have just made yourself look stupid. Again.
 
Basha73 said:
Mel Morris owned Derby County. He also owned Pride Park. Originally he owned them both as part of one Company.

When he sold the ground to himself he did so by creating a new company and selling it from the Company who owned Derby to the new company.

That meant Mel owned two companies - one that owned the club and one that owned the ground.

Because he acted as guarantor for the MSD loans, it allowed MSD to register a charge against his asset(s) for those loans.

Clowes so far has bought Pride Park by buying the company that owns it. That Company is totally separate to the company that owns Derby County.

So Clowes now owns Pride Park and the loan to MSD will have been paid off. Clowes does not currently own Derby County and could theoretically walk away now the proud owner of a football stadium. Or he can buy Derby County and put the two companies back together.

As he has given Derby an operating loan, it looks like he will try to do the latter but as yet nothing else has happened and no debt has been paid off except the one registered against the ground.

Strangely enough this is exactly what I was saying all along so next time you want to make a snide comment, make sure you are right because right now you have just made yourself look stupid. Again.
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So to reiterate as it stands, Clowes own Pride Park to add to their property portfolio?
 
The absolute most that could be done is that by buying the Company rather than the ground direct, MSD can offer a new loan to Clowes to cover what is owed in exchange for MSD registering a new Charge against the ground. It will then depend what Clowes decides to do but does allow him to pay MSD in instalments or whatever other agreement.

This would still have no bearing on any of the other debt.
 
Basha73 said:
Mel Morris owned Derby County. He also owned Pride Park. Originally he owned them both as part of one Company.

When he sold the ground to himself he did so by creating a new company and selling it from the Company who owned Derby to the new company.

That meant Mel owned two companies - one that owned the club and one that owned the ground.

Because he acted as guarantor for the MSD loans, it allowed MSD to register a charge against his asset(s) for those loans.

Clowes so far has bought Pride Park by buying the company that owns it. That Company is totally separate to the company that owns Derby County.

So Clowes now owns Pride Park and the loan to MSD will have been paid off. Clowes does not currently own Derby County and could theoretically walk away now the proud owner of a football stadium. Or he can buy Derby County and put the two companies back together.

As he has given Derby an operating loan, it looks like he will try to do the latter but as yet nothing else has happened and no debt has been paid off except the one registered against the ground.

Strangely enough this is exactly what I was saying all along so next time you want to make a snide comment, make sure you are right because right now you have just made yourself look stupid. Again.
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If it didn't happen, it didn't happen, but I certainly haven't made myself look stupid. As I've said , I've worked for plenty of companies that have been bought and sold, and the debts/mortgages etc have stayed with the company, now with different owners. I don't take any great interest in DCFC, but I'm fully aware that the ground was owned by a separate legal entity to DCFC. It wasn't me that put that Clowes had purchased the company that owned the ground, along with the debt. If that isn't true, then it isn't true, but I don't see the need to get derogatory towards other people.
 
jbacsta said:
Ok, so what could now happen is that they become the landlords of however subsequently buys Derby County?
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Yep. In theory nothing has changed other than the name of the owner of the company that owns the ground. There is just the question mark concerning the charge held by MSD and whether there is now a new charge.
 
Lienking said:
If it didn't happen, it didn't happen, but I certainly haven't made myself look stupid. As I've said , I've worked for plenty of companies that have been bought and sold, and the debts/mortgages etc have stayed with the company, now with different owners. I don't take any great interest in DCFC, but I'm fully aware that the ground was owned by a separate legal entity to DCFC. It wasn't me that put that Clowes had purchased the company that owned the ground, along with the debt. If that isn't true, then it isn't true, but I don't see the need to get derogatory towards other people.
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Your opening post was snide and gloating, despite you being wrong. You reap what you sow, chap.
 
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