Crystal Palace v NUFC | Page 5 | Vital Football

Crystal Palace v NUFC

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#81
What has that to do with my assertion that your argument is nonsense based on the fact that in reality Ashley has used Benitez to make taking money from us even easier ?
Because you are not going back to the fundamentals of the argument, merely being a boorish prick with no rationale.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#82
Not at all.

Let's try and keep it simple.

Ashley need £X to buy some failing retail chain. He can get £X if the business has a coherent strategy to qualify for higher level competition with matching revenue, c. +£120 million revenues.

If he has a shite manager who has never achieved Champions League qualification and looks at things from a short term point of view, playing players because they are fit and struggling to avoid relegation (-£680 million revenue), future revenue predictions diverge considerably, so does potential profit therefore club value.

Let's keep it simpler than that

If a manager with proven credentials increases the chances of the club reaching a valuation that Ashley would be happy to sell at - why is Steve Bruce the manager?
 

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#83
Because Ashley is inconsistent. Sometimes, he and his minions listen to advice. If he gets the chance to have one up on someone who is world class in his job and a more positive profile than him, he has a tendency to lapse into a variety of manias.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#84
Not at all.

Let's try and keep it simple.

Ashley need £X to buy some failing retail chain. He can get £X if the business has a coherent strategy to qualify for higher level competition with matching revenue, c. +£120 million revenues.

If he has a shite manager who has never achieved Champions League qualification and looks at things from a short term point of view, playing players because they are fit and struggling to avoid relegation (-£680 million revenue), future revenue predictions diverge considerably, so does potential profit therefore club value.
I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you Rexn you are attempting to explain what Ashley should be doing when in reality he has shown you for over a decade how a real businessman does it.

Simply put you can't seem to grasp why Ashley doesn't want or needs to sell.
 

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#85
I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you Rexn you are attempting to explain what Ashley should be doing when in reality he has shown you for over a decade how a real businessman does it.

Simply put you can't seem to grasp why Ashley doesn't want or needs to sell.
If you had been a part of any of the groups that have sought discourse with NUFC under its current ownership, you might engender respect. I am sure your nostrils are totally clean and I hope you enjoyed the taste.
 

Finn_the_Dog

Vital Squad Member
#87
As a businessman with an opportunity cost in a variety of retail opportunities, a crossover price can be calculated where he can acquire more of the retail assets. Also there is a natural rate of return from NUFC as a cash cow.

There is a price range that would give him in excess of Delloite's criteria from an outfit aimed at revenue growth and investment.

The club now is worth about £100 million less than it was this time last year.
Whilst I don’t doubt your calculations Rexn, there seems little evidence at all that he wants to sell. What maybe is plausible in theory is not meeting with reality. Is there a single company that the fat one has owned that he’s ever moved on? He just acquires vulnerable companies with big names and turns them into trash brands.

The club has allegedly been up for sale for years. Other clubs have been bought out once or twice since NUFC have been on the market. What could be the stumbling block??
 

daftladguy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#89
Bet those 10,000 season ticket holders are delighted they spoilt Saturday wandering round the Metrocentre, getting involved with this shit.
In my mind they are directly to blame, without them, the ground would be even emptier, and the fat slug would be squirming like Fook. Thats not to say he gets a shock at the start of next season and has to give away 20,000 tickets.
His time is up, he has no more cards to play...
As for Bruce, his lack of tactics, excuses, and he wont be able to hide behind Rafa's record for much longer, would rather have Carver in charge.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#90
"If you had been a part of any of the groups that have sought discourse with NUFC under its current ownership, you might engender respect."

I'm not sure if you are thick,naive,or a mixture of both Rexn but if you had listened to Kevin Keegan,or even possessed the common sense of a neanderthal, for example, :grinning: the futility of engaging with Ashley's representatives would/should have been obvious.

He used the groups that as you put it "sought discourse".
Is that still not clear to you even now ??


I guess the attraction of sitting round a table drinking coffee and eating biscuits with "important people" was too much for you peasants to resist ? :unsure:

I genuinely hope you don't skulk off back to your site again (wherever that is) and instead use your financial know how in a way that aids the fight against Ashley rather than playing billy big bollocks and trying to convince reasonably intelligent people that Benitez was/could have be been a key player in the shit storm Ashley left on our lawn.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#91
Bet those 10,000 season ticket holders are delighted they spoilt Saturday wandering round the Metrocentre, getting involved with this shit.
In my mind they are directly to blame, without them, the ground would be even emptier, and the fat slug would be squirming like Fook. Thats not to say he gets a shock at the start of next season and has to give away 20,000 tickets.
His time is up, he has no more cards to play...
As for Bruce, his lack of tactics, excuses, and he wont be able to hide behind Rafa's record for much longer, would rather have Carver in charge.
Ha ha nice to see you are still around dlg:grinning:
 

Rza

Vital Champions League
#93
Whilst Ashley definitely does not want to sell and I'm not completely overlooking his achievements, I don't think he's anywhere near as intelligent or calculated as some people are making out. Out of all of Ashley business exploits, what has he done apart from get extremely lucky with sports direct? The only other semi successful business is nufc (depending on what you define as successful) and we all know why he is still here. Look at rangers. Look at Debenhams. House of Fraser?
 

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#94
Whilst I don’t doubt your calculations Rexn, there seems little evidence at all that he wants to sell. What maybe is plausible in theory is not meeting with reality. Is there a single company that the fat one has owned that he’s ever moved on? He just acquires vulnerable companies with big names and turns them into trash brands.

The club has allegedly been up for sale for years. Other clubs have been bought out once or twice since NUFC have been on the market. What could be the stumbling block??
You're right of course, there is little evidence that he "wants" to sell NUFC.

It depends what you mean by "moved on". Any business is a mixture of incoming and outgoing funds. He made his overriding brand worth billions by increasing incoming. In other businesses he has reduced costs, notably in distribution. He has also negotiated some tight contract clauses.

If you ever see his Select Committee hearings, it comes through loud and clear that his first love is retail. If you look at his share transactions, he is a very basic (but at a high level) market trader. He will buy when he thinks the price is right, he will sell when he thinks the price is right.

It is in his nature to buy low and sell high.

In essence, the "stumbling block" is that he hasn't been offered the high price that he wants to screw, without the conditions to be able to say he got a deal.

Now to conjecture - until June last year, he could have been close to getting a price that would have got him out. He has shot himself in the foot by letting his ego (also apparent in Select Committees) get the better of his financial interests.

There have been different final straws for different supporter groups. The 10,000 free season tickets equates to about £5 million or 20% of match revenue that comes straight off his bottom line. By Deloittes' criteria (supposedly industry experts) that wipes £70-100 million off the price before considering the cost cutting measures he has employed that bump up the need for future investment in squad and facilities.

The Man City experience also reduces opportunities for potential buyers, remembering that Abramovic did his bit at Chelsea before FFP came in.

There may still be potential buyers out there who can see how extra revenue can be made by clubs. Interesting to note that when he took the club over, we finished 1 point ahead of City, at the end of his first season we were a place behind Spurs.

A whole range of potential "vanity" buyers are now ruled out. For those who continue to associate with the club, the shit appears to be welded to the bottom of their shoes.
 

Mcnamee67

Vital Football Hero
#95
Interesting thoughts Rexn. Now Ashley said in 2017 that the floatation of Sports `direct was 'an unmitigated disaster' yet when it was floated in 2007 he made £941m overnight and was able to purchase NUFC which for him (up to now) has been an absolute 'gold mine'. Which direction he takes in the future will be for his benefit. We all know that.
 

vin1892

Vital 1st Team Regular
#96
I think whilst we're in a relegation scrap we are unlikely to be sold unless the potential new owners can insert a relegation clause, which Ashley is not going to entertain.

If if we somehow survive this season I can see a further drop in season ticket sales. Even after giving away 10k free season tickets we're struggling to sell out the Burnley game.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#97
This fancy business talk is all very well but can anyone actually deny that the Benitez years were just another 3 wasted seasons letting Ashley off the hook ??

The fact of the matter is the club wasn't sold while he was here (I don't think many Benitez fans actually believed the sale rumours at the time either but that's inconsequential)

This neanderthal is absolutely convinced that exerted pressure on Ashley during that period would have been far more beneficial than sticking tongues up Rafas hoop (figuratively speaking of course)
 
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PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#98
This fancy business talk is all very well but can anyone actually deny that the Benitez years were just another 3 wasted seasons letting Ashley off the hook ??

The fact of the matter is the club wasn't sold while he was here (I don't think many Benitez fans actually believed the sale rumours at the time either but that's inconsequential)

This neanderthal is absolutely convinced that exerted pressure on Ashley during that period would have been far more beneficial than sticking tongues up Rafas hoop (figuratively speaking of course)
:clap:
It's like fantasy island,facts are inconsequential, i'm just trying to work out which one is tattoo.
 

Finn_the_Dog

Vital Squad Member
#99
Whilst there maybe financial circumstances to suggest that there could be certain conditions that ashley would sell, the evidence would suggest it’s not likely.

Open to conjecture, but to me:

He has no history of selling much, if anything, that he acquires. Be that his ego, financial counter-arguments, whatever - there is no evidence he is willing to sell. There is evidence to suggest he is not willing, however.

His relationship with NUFC is wholly parasitical. Parasites don’t relinquish their grips on their hosts whilst the host is still breathing. Despite the horrendous running and plight of the club, there’s still breathe in it.

The club has allegedly been for sale for years. ashley is the reason it has not been sold. Because he doesn’t want to sell it. Other clubs have been sold - some twice over - during ashley’s association with NUFC.

Retail, as Rexn identifies, is his domain. I suspect the stumbling block centres round that, with Ashley insisting on ongoing rights regarding club merchandise and advertising. This is why a deal had not been done “overnight without anyone knowing”. The latest group have allegedly been in talks for over 4 months. I suspect they leaked to the WSJ out of desperation trying to hold ashley’s feet to the fire so sick of waiting for that “overnight without anyone knowing”.

Nobody is going to spend over £350M on a football club without getting full autonomy on how they run it thereafter. Ashley’s likely caveats concerning retail and marketing will always prevent a sale unless it’s to someone like kenyon’s consortium (Ashley’s supposed preference) as he’d likely go with that, which would benefit only him and ashley while the club remains crippled.

He’s used NUFC to prop up his other interests and promote his tat. Why kill the cash cow?

The only power is with the fans to boycott. Ashley made a unique move to counter recent efforts with mackem-style freebies that the sheeps’ friends have taken. It’s costing him money, yes, but this is just a dent at the moment whilst the club survives in the prem league as that is dwarfed by tv revenue and free global publicity for his tat. He needs a full stadium for the reasons stated on here countless times.

I said years ago that, failing a sustained, fully supported boycott to make a statement to the world, relegation and a sustained period outside of the top flight was the only chemotherapy to the cancer that is ashley.

Imo Rafa Benitez, either naively (I doubt) or by design kept the club up, which ultimately, by default, served no purpose to anyone but ashley. As Benitez was so revered on the terraces (despite the awful product on the pitch) there is a large slice of irony with that.

Above all else, you’re dealing with a cold fish who just sees the margins. There is no need to add risk in expenditure to improve when you can bump along the bottom with the likes of Bournemouth, Burnley and other also-rans quite nicely thank you very much.
 

keggy_keagal

Vital 1st Team Regular
Whilst there maybe financial circumstances to suggest that there could be certain conditions that ashley would sell, the evidence would suggest it’s not likely.

Open to conjecture, but to me:

He has no history of selling much, if anything, that he acquires. Be that his ego, financial counter-arguments, whatever - there is no evidence he is willing to sell. There is evidence to suggest he is not willing, however.

His relationship with NUFC is wholly parasitical. Parasites don’t relinquish their grips on their hosts whilst the host is still breathing. Despite the horrendous running and plight of the club, there’s still breathe in it.

The club has allegedly been for sale for years. ashley is the reason it has not been sold. Because he doesn’t want to sell it. Other clubs have been sold - some twice over - during ashley’s association with NUFC.

Retail, as Rexn identifies, is his domain. I suspect the stumbling block centres round that, with Ashley insisting on ongoing rights regarding club merchandise and advertising. This is why a deal had not been done “overnight without anyone knowing”. The latest group have allegedly been in talks for over 4 months. I suspect they leaked to the WSJ out of desperation trying to hold ashley’s feet to the fire so sick of waiting for that “overnight without anyone knowing”.

Nobody is going to spend over £350M on a football club without getting full autonomy on how they run it thereafter. Ashley’s likely caveats concerning retail and marketing will always prevent a sale unless it’s to someone like kenyon’s consortium (Ashley’s supposed preference) as he’d likely go with that, which would benefit only him and ashley while the club remains crippled.

He’s used NUFC to prop up his other interests and promote his tat. Why kill the cash cow?

The only power is with the fans to boycott. Ashley made a unique move to counter recent efforts with mackem-style freebies that the sheeps’ friends have taken. It’s costing him money, yes, but this is just a dent at the moment whilst the club survives in the prem league as that is dwarfed by tv revenue and free global publicity for his tat. He needs a full stadium for the reasons stated on here countless times.

I said years ago that, failing a sustained, fully supported boycott to make a statement to the world, relegation and a sustained period outside of the top flight was the only chemotherapy to the cancer that is ashley.

Imo Rafa Benitez, either naively (I doubt) or by design kept the club up, which ultimately, by default, served no purpose to anyone but ashley. As Benitez was so revered on the terraces (despite the awful product on the pitch) there is a large slice of irony with that.

Above all else, you’re dealing with a cold fish who just sees the margins. There is no need to add risk in expenditure to improve when you can bump along the bottom with the likes of Bournemouth, Burnley and other also-rans quite nicely thank you very much.
Absolutely nailed it .