Croatia V England | Page 5 | Vital Forums

Croatia V England

spurdon

Vital Football Legend
#81
Said after the game, that if Harry had taken his chances the way he does/can - we would have been out of sight.

As it is, I now see that (unsurprisingly) Croatia are basically now all saying we 'reverted to type' as I did and all we are is a long-ball team.

That hurts me more than losing, because in the second half it was dead true.
It's a little too simplistic to boil it down to Kane scores we win, so he faild. We consistently failed to make him chances every game we played. His goal to shot ratio in the tournament is ridiculous. That the Southgate blind spot with Sterling would hurt us is evident. The second half revert to our true "DNA" no matter what Ashworth says is as EX say's the painful bit. It will only be solved by an individual;however any time we are close to developing one the EPL's rigours hospitalizes and breaks them Whiltshire and now Winks. I suspect we will have to hothouse one in the German or Spanish league so there development is not stalled.
 
#82
I agree with every post re the postmortem of the Croatia game.

The one point I haven't seen discussed is how Southgate utilised Trippier in a role that's best suited to his ability. I have NEVER seen Tripp perform so well in the Spurs setup because he plays as a WB. Give him protection at the back and he is able to express himself. The delivery of crosses, Dead ball, corners, and general threat.. Makes you wonder why Poch relies on Eriksen (can't clear the 1st defender) for those attributes when we have an alternative. I hope this is noted by Poch and those duties are shared next season. Tripp was one player who did everything that it says on the tin. Pickford was the next best imo.

Does anyone know if a goal in the play-offs counts towards the golden boot?
 

spurdon

Vital Football Legend
#83
I agree with every post re the postmortem of the Croatia game.

The one point I haven't seen discussed is how Southgate utilised Trippier in a role that's best suited to his ability. I have NEVER seen Tripp perform so well in the Spurs setup because he plays as a WB. Give him protection at the back and he is able to express himself. The delivery of crosses, Dead ball, corners, and general threat.. Makes you wonder why Poch relies on Eriksen (can't clear the 1st defender) for those attributes when we have an alternative. I hope this is noted by Poch and those duties are shared next season. Tripp was one player who did everything that it says on the tin. Pickford was the next best imo.

Does anyone know if a goal in the play-offs counts towards the golden boot?
Don't know but I'd like to get a definitive answer as I have Kane at 16-1 So want know if to cash out.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#85
way I saw it - ref was terrible but no way of knowing if we'd have created a chance out of the numerous small calls that went against us. Things like Lovren not getting booked early meant he was free to make some ballsy challenges he never would have done on a yellow, which nipped some of our attacks in the bud.

Creating 1-2 chances per game for Kane that wasn't from a set piece, which is what we did in most of our matches iirc, is a tactical failing.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Hero
#86
Ref was not great. Alli was brought down while running towards their pen area, clear contact with his foot, quite nasty. Croatia broke forward, ref played on. Foot was very high on Walkers head, if that was outfield....free kick and yet the goal stood.

People are suggesting we got beat by the better team on the radio. I'm not seeing it that obviously. We held them for 110 minutes. We had good chances to put the game beyond them. Very fine margins.
 
#87
I will never ever forget that referee or that linesman.

I don't usually factor the referee into results but I do this one.

Would England have won? Maybe.

But the referee changed the game and those two out of bounds balls are highly suspect. The first would have resulted in a corner if called correctly.
That Lino also gave Harry offside when he shot against the post after the keeper had saved his first shot . He clearly was not offside . The ball rebounded off the keeper , ballooned up and went out of play , and should have been a corner . The commentator on ITV said he was flagging because the ball had gone out of play, again , plainly wrong . Given our record of scoring from set pieces/ corners these were mistakes that could have been gamechangers
 
#88
way I saw it - ref was terrible but no way of knowing if we'd have created a chance out of the numerous small calls that went against us. Things like Lovren not getting booked early meant he was free to make some ballsy challenges he never would have done on a yellow, which nipped some of our attacks in the bud.

Creating 1-2 chances per game for Kane that wasn't from a set piece, which is what we did in most of our matches iirc, is a tactical failing.
Fruend, I was certain Lovren was booked when he flattened Harry right on the Halfway line in the first half . He clearly body checked him and put an elbow into his chest . Two or three of their players joined in the protest , but it was clearly deliberate
 

spurdon

Vital Football Legend
#89
I have just read either a completely unwarranted nasty minded take down of Delli Alli on theboyhotspur blog. Or he has been fairly judged and found to be a totally naked emperor. Can someone have a look and give me an opinion. It feels gratuitous but that don't necessarily make it untrue.

http://theboyhotspur.com
 
#90
Croatia were the better team. They had players who could control the ball in key areas of the pitch. They had players that could pick out a pass. They had players who used intelligence. I knew they would win.

We didn't have the players with the intelligence to win the game. Sterling, Lingard, Rashford, Vardy are all brain dead. Alli was at times as well. All pace, all huff and puff, very little intelligence.

Sadly that was Southgates main weapon after the set pieces. Hit the ball long and hope the fast players would pick up the ball and cause problems.

We need Winks to make big progression over the next two years. We need that CM who can control a football game. Set the tempo. Take the sting out of the game at key points during a game. Modric was so good at this last night. Effortless.

We also need 2 players further up the pitch that actually use their brain. How many times did Rashford, Sterling and Lingard give the ball away by rushing their pass? Was infuriating.

Pickford, Tripps, Stones, Maguire and Kane were excellent IMO. They just didn't have the players around them to go any further. Alli was so so. At times he looked good then other times he just wasn't at the races.

It was an easy run, and is the main reason we got to the semi finals.

It was a fun ride though. We certainly didn't embarrass our-self's. For the first time in 14 years I saw an England team try. We are hard to beat and well organised. So certainly some positives to take but many really have been swept along with this it's coming home tripe.

Roy Keane owned everyone in the studio last night. A real winner who doesn't sugar coat anything.
 
#91
As for that ref, cheating prick. Nothing massive, but at least 8-10 little decisions that took the sting out of our game. Every time we started to get some sort of tempo going he would give them the decision.

They of course took full advantage. Mandz prime candidate.
 
#92
I have just read either a completely unwarranted nasty minded take down of Delli Alli on theboyhotspur blog. Or he has been fairly judged and found to be a totally naked emperor. Can someone have a look and give me an opinion. It feels gratuitous but that don't necessarily make it untrue.

http://theboyhotspur.com
Seems to me to have been written by a Gooner or a fourteen year old . Or even a fourteen year old Gooner. To quote your own words ,Spurdon , I see it as a completely unwarranted nasty minded take down.
Too simplistic ,no substance and poorly written
 

spurdon

Vital Football Legend
#93
Seems to me to have been written by a Gooner or a fourteen year old . Or even a fourteen year old Gooner. To quote your own words ,Spurdon , I see it as a completely unwarranted nasty minded take down.
Too simplistic ,no substance and poorly written
Good so I wasn't just being a one eyed fan boy. Alli to my mind is that rare thing in sport a natural. He can be sloppy and breath taking in the same moment and yes he does have to improve but he is way too talented for either club or country to discard. I do sometimes wonder if his development has been stalled by being pushed further forward. He was supposed to the next Gerrard but he's become a second striker. Poch needs a clear vision of who he is.
 
#94
Nice to see some sanity. This whole Kane playing deeper to provide for Sterling thing has bothered me every game it's been apparent. Was shouted down when I expressed it to mates who said Sterling was integral to how we played and his runs were scaring defenders.
So called expert pundits on tv have also said that Sterlings run scare defenders . What a load of old dross. The only person who was scared was tattoo boy himself . Scared he might keep control of the ball and then have to decide what to do with the bloody thing . He even reverted to type last night at one stage and threw himself to the floor in the hope of getting a free kick after yet again mis controlling the ball. Ref saw straight through that .
It was a shame that Southgate had such an inflexible plan and refused to acknowledge it needed tweeking . Walker is not a centre back . Young is not an international flying left wing back . Sterling cannot play off Harry or alongside him.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Hero
#95
Croatia were the better team. They had players who could control the ball in key areas of the pitch. They had players that could pick out a pass. They had players who used intelligence. I knew they would win.

We didn't have the players with the intelligence to win the game. Sterling, Lingard, Rashford, Vardy are all brain dead. Alli was at times as well. All pace, all huff and puff, very little intelligence.

Sadly that was Southgates main weapon after the set pieces. Hit the ball long and hope the fast players would pick up the ball and cause problems.

We need Winks to make big progression over the next two years. We need that CM who can control a football game. Set the tempo. Take the sting out of the game at key points during a game. Modric was so good at this last night. Effortless.

We also need 2 players further up the pitch that actually use their brain. How many times did Rashford, Sterling and Lingard give the ball away by rushing their pass? Was infuriating.

Pickford, Tripps, Stones, Maguire and Kane were excellent IMO. They just didn't have the players around them to go any further. Alli was so so. At times he looked good then other times he just wasn't at the races.

It was an easy run, and is the main reason we got to the semi finals.

It was a fun ride though. We certainly didn't embarrass our-self's. For the first time in 14 years I saw an England team try. We are hard to beat and well organised. So certainly some positives to take but many really have been swept along with this it's coming home tripe.

Roy Keane owned everyone in the studio last night. A real winner who doesn't sugar coat anything.
Croatia were so much better it took them 110 minutes to get in front.
 

muttley

Vital Reserves Team
#96
So called expert pundits on tv have also said that Sterlings run scare defenders . What a load of old dross. The only person who was scared was tattoo boy himself . Scared he might keep control of the ball and then have to decide what to do with the bloody thing . He even reverted to type last night at one stage and threw himself to the floor in the hope of getting a free kick after yet again mis controlling the ball. Ref saw straight through that .
It was a shame that Southgate had such an inflexible plan and refused to acknowledge it needed tweeking . Walker is not a centre back . Young is not an international flying left wing back . Sterling cannot play off Harry or alongside him.
To be fair, Sterling's runs should have done the required job, but for the referees blatant refusal to hand out yellows. He tortured Lovren with his direct play but the defender went the entire 120 mins without a yellow and in total they had 2 yellows.

I'm gonna start sounding like a broken record but FIFA's obsession of keeping 22 players on the pitch is ruining football. It is so clear now that you can do what you want, especially in the first half of any game. The referees are now told to ignore the rule book.

I hope Poch is paying attention. Juve did it to us last year with blatant yellows not given by guys like Matuidi and Khedira at early stages of the fixture. We saw Valencia do it in 3 separate games in the Utd fixtures and we've now seen England suffer because of the same thing with guys like Perisic, Vida and Lovren getting away with it. It is becoming the new norm.
 

muttley

Vital Reserves Team
#97
As for the game itself, managed to watch it from behind the goal. All was going well until Trippier scored at which point I got hit by a thrown plastic pint glass and split the bridge of my nose. England fans are such wankers at times. Managed to stop the bleeding at half time.

Not gonna say any more about the ref but we all know he was a high reason we didn't get the first half momentum and kill the game off. Croatia were by far the better team overall and I actually felt honoured watching the master by Modric. I just hope he gets player of the tournament.

With respect to England, unfortunately Southgate got it wrong. I said it way back when he left Bertrand at home that it would come back to haunt us. I'm not doubting Young had a few good moments in the tournament but I would be insulted if I were Bertrand sitting at home watching a makeshift player do my role that I had spent an entire career learning and at the peak of my career. Young's positional sense was woeful and he was totally accountable for their goal. He was barely in a correct position for a wing-back all evening and didn't get a telling cross all the time he was on the pitch. Not his fault, it was the managers. It was also Maguire's and Stones's fault who would happily both be free and let Young come inside and leave acres for Croatia to exploit. Trust me, seeing the stuff you only see in the stadium was scary if you've played any standard of football. You couldn't make it up. It was only when Rose came on that he used his experience to correct the back five and got chalk on his boots playing wing back like you're supposed to. Rose got 3 or 4 telling crosses in within 15 mins of being on the field.

If Southgate thinks there's another way to play with wing-backs then he's simply naive. It also messed up Dele's tournament as he spent most of the tournament covering for Young and never got the chance to show us his magic inside or further up like he does for Poch.

It's a shame really. We probably had the tools to get to the final, but for the naivety of the manager and the rabbit in the headlights performance in the middle part of the game from a young England team.
 

spurdon

Vital Football Legend
#98
Muttley I'm sorry about your injury, I'll have to correct you mate England fans in all honesty are wankers ALL the time. Your spot on about Young, Southgate sacrificed Alli destabilising the whole flank for deliveries that Young mostly misplaced. We needed width. I'd also add Maguire should not be on the left of a three we need a natural left footed player (do we have that?) to play CB. Kane fed on scraps. A few big Doh's from Southgate.
 
#99
I have just read either a completely unwarranted nasty minded take down of Delli Alli on theboyhotspur blog. Or he has been fairly judged and found to be a totally naked emperor. Can someone have a look and give me an opinion. It feels gratuitous but that don't necessarily make it untrue.

http://theboyhotspur.com

I wouldn't bother, I recall when he did the same to Rose - he then went on to have two magnificent seasons for us, he did the same with Walker, who also then went on to play incredibly well for us - I wouldn't read any of his stuff again, he's a clickbait merchant, but from memory derides other clickbait merchants. He sluaghtered Vert as well when we first bought him, it was Ox (the old admin here) who said he was a funny read and sent me there, but I actually thought after a while it was pretty sad - but Ox used to tell me that he was the clickbait king, perhaps he was right?

His tactical knowledge of football would appear to be severely limited (did he once claim he played as well?), and almost every single one of his nonsensical crap that I read a couple of years ago on his ITK were all complete gibberish and utter bullshit - to be fair he may have improved, I don't know.

I really do think he's bordering on hating Spurs and everything to do with it, I'm sure he'd or has justified his constant diatrible but personally I get my diatribe fix by listening to my drunk mates after a game we've lost - and they still seem to make more sense.

But everyone has his place in this world and I'm sure a few believe he has is - good luck to you if that what you want, but he's not for me.

Can't be bothered to read what he's saying about Alli, but it's been said here by me - he hasn't had a great season with us, and I don't think he's done justice to himself in the World Cup either.

But with a good rest, I wouldn't mind betting he is another who has a great year for us, it's an absolute fact that young players who are still filling out their frame are notoriously known for having a bad season where they don't live up to the hype, so it doesn't bother me - he'll come good again.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
Muttley I'm sorry about your injury, I'll have to correct you mate England fans in all honesty are wankers ALL the time. Your spot on about Young, Southgate sacrificed Alli destabilising the whole flank for deliveries that Young mostly misplaced. We needed width. I'd also add Maguire should not be on the left of a three we need a natural left footed player (do we have that?) to play CB. Kane fed on scraps. A few big Doh's from Southgate.
yeah getting annoyed with the flak Dele's getting for not dominating the middle when he was deployed mostly on the left...

Southgate basically played one CM against one of the best midfields in the tournament.

The more I think about it the more his tactics annoy me. Oh well.