Cowleys sacked | Page 20 | Vital Football

Cowleys sacked

Welc
JohnGee said:
Hi, I'm a newby to the forum, and it's my first post, but wanted to have a say about the Cowleys and Lincoln City. I've been a fan for 55 years, born in Lincoln in the 50's, now in Nottingham, and only get to about four games a season now, as I do a Saturday job for the FA. Was a season ticket holder back in the day, watching John Kennedy, Jim Smith, Lou Thom, Norman Corner, Bill Cobb, Ray Harford, and the rest of the merry men. I've seen all the managers, the successful, Taylor, Murphy, Alexander and the Cowleys, the enthusiastic, Moyes, Stant, Schofield, Brown, and the incompetents, Clarke, Sutton and Tilson. No-one will be more respected for their tenure and success at Sincil Bank than the Cowleys and their achievements, listed elsewhere on this thread, but guess what, they've gone....end of story.
Do we want them back?
No, we have a perfectly good manager in Appleton, and I look forward to his term of office. Lincoln will never be the club that can match their ambition, or fund it. To be frank, it's very disrespectful to Appleton to wish them back here. We couldn't match their ambition or expected salary and they moved on
Has their reputation been damaged at Huddersfield?
Yes, maybe not in the eyes of supporters and the media, but I would think a lot of chairmen will be wary of employing them, and perhaps players won't relish playing under them in the future. Would you hand over your bank account to someone who worked for you and hope they spent it wisely?
Did they plan to leave City last year as early as they did, early season?
Yes, I think so, as witnessed by last summer's recruitment, which was quite frankly bizarre, as we accumulated enough midfielders for six clubs.
Are they Championship/Premier managers in the making?
Possibly, but not a great deal of evidence to back it up. Are they more statisticians than tactic/flair developers? Are they true coaches or teachers turned managers. As an ex teacher, they tend to expect everyone to listen to them and carry out the instructions (or I'll throw the board rubber at you).
The Cowleys will always be held with great affection for the job they did at Lincoln, but it was never going to last, as I truly believe we have found our level in the football pyramid at last, thanks to them. Had they stayed, their demands and expectations would have risen and a possible fall out with Clive Nates would have been inevitable as the one with Phil Phil Hodkinson.
We owe them a great deal, and I salute them, pleased they have progressed for now, but I am actually over the moon with my home town club where we are today, in terms of its Chairman, diverse board of directors, manager, and all the staff, both football and non football. There is no better club I want to support than the Imps, and I wish everyone connected with City all the best for the 20/21 season, especially Michael Appleton. (And we are not related!) UTI.
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JohnGee said:
Hi, I'm a newby to the forum, and it's my first post, but wanted to have a say about the Cowleys and Lincoln City. I've been a fan for 55 years, born in Lincoln in the 50's, now in Nottingham, and only get to about four games a season now, as I do a Saturday job for the FA. Was a season ticket holder back in the day, watching John Kennedy, Jim Smith, Lou Thom, Norman Corner, Bill Cobb, Ray Harford, and the rest of the merry men. I've seen all the managers, the successful, Taylor, Murphy, Alexander and the Cowleys, the enthusiastic, Moyes, Stant, Schofield, Brown, and the incompetents, Clarke, Sutton and Tilson. No-one will be more respected for their tenure and success at Sincil Bank than the Cowleys and their achievements, listed elsewhere on this thread, but guess what, they've gone....end of story.
Do we want them back?
No, we have a perfectly good manager in Appleton, and I look forward to his term of office. Lincoln will never be the club that can match their ambition, or fund it. To be frank, it's very disrespectful to Appleton to wish them back here. We couldn't match their ambition or expected salary and they moved on
Has their reputation been damaged at Huddersfield?
Yes, maybe not in the eyes of supporters and the media, but I would think a lot of chairmen will be wary of employing them, and perhaps players won't relish playing under them in the future. Would you hand over your bank account to someone who worked for you and hope they spent it wisely?
Did they plan to leave City last year as early as they did, early season?
Yes, I think so, as witnessed by last summer's recruitment, which was quite frankly bizarre, as we accumulated enough midfielders for six clubs.
Are they Championship/Premier managers in the making?
Possibly, but not a great deal of evidence to back it up. Are they more statisticians than tactic/flair developers? Are they true coaches or teachers turned managers. As an ex teacher, they tend to expect everyone to listen to them and carry out the instructions (or I'll throw the board rubber at you).
The Cowleys will always be held with great affection for the job they did at Lincoln, but it was never going to last, as I truly believe we have found our level in the football pyramid at last, thanks to them. Had they stayed, their demands and expectations would have risen and a possible fall out with Clive Nates would have been inevitable as the one with Phil Phil Hodkinson.
We owe them a great deal, and I salute them, pleased they have progressed for now, but I am actually over the moon with my home town club where we are today, in terms of its Chairman, diverse board of directors, manager, and all the staff, both football and non football. There is no better club I want to support than the Imps, and I wish everyone connected with City all the best for the 20/21 season, especially Michael Appleton. (And we are not related!) UTI.
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Welcome to the forum not sure I agree with all your points but on here everyone’s opinion is appreciated. Has it took you all those years to keep up with modern technology to respond to others comments. I applaud you for joining the vital imps and look forward to seeing many of your opinions
 
I think the Cowleys' work at Lincoln was exceptional. They did a great job at Huddersfield by keeping them up and if they had stayed there I think they would have them near the play offs next year.

I don't think they are a one trick pony and I don't believe they were predictable as has been stated.

I just think at the start of this season they weren't overly prepared as I think they thought they were going to be away before the start of the season. This showed in the imbalanced team they left behind.

Would I have them back? No, because I believe they have moved on and think we should too. Will I keep an eye on their careers? Yes I will because they took my club from the doldrums and took it to league one, which for me is pretty much dreamland. Championship would be nice, but I am not going to base my future happiness on it that's for sure.

Where will they end up next? Who knows, but I wouldn't be surprised to see in a decade or so Danny and Nicky managing England.
 
Thanks for the kind words and replies, I've always found the forum interesting, informative, and at times funny, but the Cowleys fascinate me, hence the post after so long. Mike, agree with your overview of the club entirely, but not sure they would ever return or I would want them back. Are they tactical geniuses, or hard working statisticians. They are proven at non league and EFL division 1 level (although spending heavily), but not any higher as yet. Only time and the next appointment will tell. Or could they return to teaching?? Danny always says that he doesn't get involved with referee's, it's something he cannot control and therefore he steers clear, yet at Rotherham early in the season, where we won 0-2, he and Nicky were like a pair of tag wrestlers, taking it in turns to berate the 4th official for the ninety minutes. They are almost control freaks, nice ones, but not everyone's cup of tea, as the 34 pages on the Huddersfield forum prove, with praise and grumbles in equal amounts, and definitely a lack of appreciation of their style of play. Appleton is almost starting with a clean slate, I like the idea of developing players (another Rashford or Bellingham somewhere in Lincolnshire?), and the future looks rosy, so lets give him every opportunity to do well. I think the new board, under Clive Nates, will also be a breath of fresh air and spend the money wisely, and can only thank them and some past chairmen for keeping the club afloat in difficult times, and not bowing to managerial spending pressure! Remember Bury..... UTI
 
An interesting, well written original post from JohnGee, many from his era will agree with much of it. Clive was the mentor that this Club needed, and the Cowleys were an inspirational appointment, what a remarkable transformation there has been for both the Club and the City.
The Cowleys are at a crossroads, regarded as marmite type characters by fans and probably club chairmen. They now will be comfortably well off, do they or their families need the hassle, real and virtual, that goes with Championship or higher level management?
LCFC has moved on, no reason to think Michael Appleton cannot continue to make further progress. But never say never.
 
I'd agree Michael Appleton has made much progress with costs of our squad, and that is absolutely the prime factor in current times.
I'm not sure there's been any playing improvement, and for me, things have gone quite poor in that respect. Now, that is not a criticism as it's clearly his role to do that as part of the cost cutting, and to perform the difficult balancing act of paying much less for worse players but still have ones that are good enough to keep us in Lge1.
And that is what he has successfully done.

And I have no expectations of any success under Appleton nor do I think he has either, except for keeping us just above relegation.
 
All valid points by all ,

I think Michael Appleton with the help of the board and backroom staff will do a
great job and make Lincoln city very sustainable, We may not get the success of the cowleys but may well take us up to the championship which would be a tough job and even tougher to stay there however i like what hes doing and maybe long term a better fit them the cowleys
 
buckielugger said:
I'd agree Michael Appleton has made much progress with costs of our squad, and that is absolutely the prime factor in current times.
I'm not sure there's been any playing improvement, and for me, things have gone quite poor in that respect. Now, that is not a criticism as it's clearly his role to do that as part of the cost cutting, and to perform the difficult balancing act of paying much less for worse players but still have ones that are good enough to keep us in League 1.
And that is what he has successfully done.

And I have no expectations of any success under Appleton nor do I think he has either, except for keeping us just above relegation.
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No playing improvement? He has had one transfer window, so I'm not entirely sure what you expected. I spoke to many, many Oxford United supporters before both games last season and they said that he needs a few transfer windows to get his team together playing how he wants. And just look what he did at Oxford, eh?

Worse players? No, they are players that Michael Appleton considers to have potential, and ones that he believes can play the football he wants to play.

I believe he has openly spoken about trying to take us to the Championship, so I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea from that he has no expectations.
 
berksimps said:
An interesting, well written original post from JohnGee, many from his era will agree with much of it. Clive was the mentor that this Club needed, and the Cowleys were an inspirational appointment, what a remarkable transformation there has been for both the Club and the City.
The Cowleys are at a crossroads, regarded as marmite type characters by fans and probably club chairmen. They now will be comfortably well off, do they or their families need the hassle, real and virtual, that goes with Championship or higher level management?
LCFC has moved on, no reason to think Michael Appleton cannot continue to make further progress. But never say never.
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I think the the Cowleys are burningly ambitious and will want to manage at the highest level possible. I doubt they'll settle voluntarily for pootling about with the likes of, Walsall, say, in L2.
 
I think Michael Appletons initial brief was very similar in many ways to that of David Holdsworth (tin hat on!), to cut costs dramatically on the playing front. He has obviously done a lot towards that aim and will now be looking to kick on with a more sustainable, and hopefully successful, future by developing younger players.
 
Think as this is turning into more of a "What can Appleton Do?" Thread of it's own, so I will start one. :yes:
 
Personally I think the Big🍎 is doing a fantastic job under extremely difficult circumstances. Hes has taken over from our most successful management team ever with no chance of bringing any players in till January and then knowing that there would be a much smallrr pot to play with. A support base that was still in shock and barely coming to terms with their departure.
If that wasn't enough you can chuck Covid into the mix too. Despite all that he has set about his task in a thoroughly professional manner clearly explaining his philosophy to usfans and warning us that it would be a difficult transition. Its been a bumpy road at times but at the time of suspension we were starting to see the green shoots springing up. There have been some exciting signings who will no doubt kick on when footy resumes. I for one am looking forward to the restart. The Cowleys gave me the three best ever years of supporting City but for the first time following the departure of a successful manager I feel we have now moved onyo the next level. The futures bright. The futures an 🍎
 
Oldshepherd Imp said:
I think Michael Appletons initial brief was very similar in many ways to that of David Holdsworth (tin hat on!), to cut costs dramatically on the playing front. He has obviously done a lot towards that aim and will now be looking to kick on with a more sustainable, and hopefully successful, future by developing younger players.
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At least until Covid I didn't think the brief was to cut costs dramatically but more to making sure we were putting our money into players we could improve the value of.
Bossie, Akinde & O'Connor etc were investments that only paid off by us getting promoted not by any resale value later, to follow the same method for success (promotion?) in League one would require us to buy players of similar experience but with skill one level higher and as of January this year that wasn't possible without increasing debt.

The way I read how the board saw the situation was two alternatives, keep doing the same but without racking up debt we would only be able to replace players like for like and the quality of the squad would therefore stay the same, this would probably guarantee no challenge for promotion and limit the potential to mid table. The other alternative was the develop younger players, longer term it might make the club more money in sales and secondly we might get better players for a lower initial outlay, the downside is it requires a longer lead time (and costs) before they reach the levels of the experienced players.
 
Jules said:
No playing improvement? He has had one transfer window, so I'm not entirely sure what you expected. I spoke to many, many Oxford United supporters before both games last season and they said that he needs a few transfer windows to get his team together playing how he wants. And just look what he did at Oxford, eh?

Worse players? No, they are players that Michael Appleton considers to have potential, and ones that he believes can play the football he wants to play.

I believe he has openly spoken about trying to take us to the Championship, so I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea from that he has no expectations.
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@Sincilbanks
Vital 1st Team Regular
Sep 20, 2019
#1,665
Appleton was apparently not very popular at Oxford when he started. Fortunately their owner stuck with him and they reaped the rewards. Let's hope us the fans do the same if he makes a slow start here..
 
Jules said:
No playing improvement? He has had one transfer window, so I'm not entirely sure what you expected. I spoke to many, many Oxford United supporters before both games last season and they said that he needs a few transfer windows to get his team together playing how he wants. And just look what he did at Oxford, eh?

Worse players? No, they are players that Michael Appleton considers to have potential, and ones that he believes can play the football he wants to play.

I believe he has openly spoken about trying to take us to the Championship, so I'm not entirely sure where you get the idea from that he has no expectations.
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Well Cowleys had us at top of League 1 early on.
So I think I'm correct in saying season post-Cowleys was worse as we went down more than half the table.
I'm not criticising Appleton for that. Quite the opposite. His remit has been to shift out the much better but much higher earners (and even did so by bringing in a million plus in fees), and to replace them with much cheaper, much younger players, and hopefully that one or more of them may also be able to be sold on at a profit.
I think Appleton is doing very well in regard to that remit.
That doesn't mean I can't say we have worse players and worse football now because we do.
I don't demand anything better though, perfectly happy with what we've got, it's much more in line with most years of following Lincoln and allows fans to sit and moan and be grumpy and have an ideal day out at Sincil Bank.
 
buckielugger said:
... I have no expectations of any success under Appleton nor do I think he has either, except for keeping us just above relegation.
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I have expectations of success and I believe that Appleton does too. I don't think he would have taken the job if he didn't see a pathway for progression. He strikes me as a fighter with a determination to win; not unlike the Cowley's.

That said, I think there is room for a discussion on what 'success' actually looks like. For some it will be staying in L1; for others it will be mid-table security, some reasonable sized player sell-ons and decent cup runs. Nothing less than pushing for a play-off place on a regular basis and regular cup games against big clubs will suffice for some and I still believe that many supporters harbour more than a passing hope of actually getting promoted and having a good stab at staying in the Championship.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that the next couple of years could be a watershed in whether the club survives or thrives over the next decade, or that further progression is much tougher than it was in the Cowley era, but few (if any) predicted the success that was to come after the start of the 2016 season and I don't discount us continuing on that trend.
 
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cherryexile said:
I have expectations of success and I believe that Appleton does too. I don't think he would have taken the job if he didn't see a pathway for progression. He strikes me as a fighter with a determination to win; not unlike the Cowley's.

That said, I think there is room for a discussion on what 'success' actually looks like. For some it will be staying in L1; for others it will be mid-table security, some reasonable sized player sell-ons and decent cup runs. Nothing less than pushing for a play-off place on a regular basis and regular cup games against big clubs will suffice for some and I still believe that many supporters harbour more than a passing hope of actually getting promoted and having a good stab at staying in the Championship.

I don't think anyone is under any illusions that the next couple of years could be a watershed in whether the club survives or thrives over the next decade, or that further progression is much tougher than it was in the Cowley era, but few (if any) predicted the success that was to come after the start of the 2016 season and I don't discount us continuing on that trend.
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I should clarify, no expectation of success in terms of winning titles or cups or promotions.
But definitely expectations of achievement.
And each season we stay up will be an achievement. And will equally improve our financial position and survivability.
 
Quite a lot of people still only see the positives about the Cowleys, and there are quite a fair bundle of positives in terms of their time with us, however.........

.........people do seem to ignore the continual griping about finances, their insistence on being old school "I'm in charge of everything" managers and the football can hit spells where it is painful to watch the games.

Sound like they did the same as they did here, tried to push the board but unlike us, the Huddersfield chairman wasn't going to take it and kicked them out. Our board didn't exactly flood the media (they barely said anything) with messages begging them to stay so I guess our board weren't desperate to keep them here.

Most of the rumours that are viable on this subject are ones to do with budgets and the Cowleys thinking they are Brian Clough and can agree the deals. Thing being that football has changed and the manager can;t just run around thinking he is the CEO and chief financial officer (unfortunately for certain brown paper bag type managers) and secondly that they are not Brian Clough, far from it.

Can't understand all the calls for them to come back. We have a manager who is building something. They had their spell here. They did a great job. In fact a sensational job but they were then having to learn on the job a way of playing more attractive, more possession based football and struggling. Something that has been shown at Huddersfield where they have resorted to a much more physical direct game. Yes Hudds were fighting relegation but they gave up what they were trying to learn here and went back to what they know, 2 divisions higher (Championship > L2) than when they decided they needed to change style.

All the thanks in the world for what they did for us and will always have fond memories of those years but we have moved on and that should be that.

Appleton has not yet been able to develop his squad, is still laden with players that he doesn't favour, probably on pretty high wages and the model has changed substantially.

The current model is to buy young, smaller wages, develop a club team. Bringing back a manager/managers that spend big (relatively) just would not work in the new model which is vital to our future..........as can be seen by accounts of the last couple of years. We could not follow that model for much longer without accumulating debt at an unsustainable level........I mean unsustainable for a club that wants and needs to live within its means (relatively) and is being financed with small investments/investors rather than a Dale Vince type that thinks because he is paying the debt that his club is sustainable.

Thank you to the Cowleys for what you did for us but we need to get behind Appleton and let this model bear fruit or fail before we start wanting to return to the relative spend, spend method we had before.

Leave that model to Mansfield and Peterborough. We are building for the future here, not just for next season.
 
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GreenNeedle said:
Quite a lot of people still only see the positives about the Cowleys, and there are quite a fair bundle of positives in terms of their time with us, however.........

.........people do seem to ignore the continual griping about finances, their insistence on being old school "I'm in charge of everything" managers and the football can hit spells where it is painful to watch the games.

Sound like they did the same as they did here, tried to push the board but unlike us, the Huddersfield chairman wasn't going to take it and kicked them out. Our board didn't exactly flood the media (they barely said anything) with messages begging them to stay so I guess our board weren't desperate to keep them here.

Most of the rumours that are viable on this subject are ones to do with budgets and the Cowleys thinking they are Brian Clough and can agree the deals. Thing being that football has changed and the manager can;t just run around thinking he is the CEO and chief financial officer (unfortunately for certain brown paper bag type managers) and secondly that they are not Brian Clough, far from it.

Can't understand all the calls for them to come back. We have a manager who is building something. They had their spell here. They did a great job. In fact a sensational job but they were then having to learn on the job a way of playing more attractive, more possession based football and struggling. Something that has been shown at Huddersfield where they have resorted to a much more physical direct game. Yes Hudds were fighting relegation but they gave up what they were trying to learn here and went back to what they know, 2 divisions higher (Championship > L2) than when they decided they needed to change style.

All the thanks in the world for what they did for us and will always have fond memories of those years but we have moved on and that should be that.

Appleton has not yet been able to develop his squad, is still laden with players that he doesn't favour, probably on pretty high wages and the model has changed substantially.

The current model is to buy young, smaller wages, develop a club team. Bringing back a manager/managers that spend big (relatively) just would not work in the new model which is vital to our future..........as can be seen by accounts of the last couple of years. We could not follow that model for much longer without accumulating debt at an unsustainable level........I mean unsustainable for a club that wants and needs to live within its means (relatively) and is being financed with small investments/investors rather than a Dale Vince type that thinks because he is paying the debt that his club is sustainable.

Thank you to the Cowleys for what you did for us but we need to get behind Appleton and let this model bear fruit or fail before we start wanting to return to the relative spend, spend method we had before.

Leave that model to Mansfield and Peterborough. We are building for the future here, not just for next season.
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Agree with every word.
The King is dead, long live the King. Our new King is Michael Appleton.
A proven formula at what MApp is going to achieve with us.
We constantly read on here how lucky we are to have Clive as our Chairman, well this man appointed MApp because he thinks he is the right man at the right time.
I have faith in Clive and therefore faith in Michael.
UTI!
 
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