#COVID19 | Page 685 | Vital Football

#COVID19

I think it is pretty clear.

The elderly are not going to pay their fair share of this mess through tax.

I'm not into raiding their wealth (although, by God, is a lot of it hoarded with your generation) either.

The triple lock was already immoral before the lockdown. A reasonable idea in the late 00's when state pensions had gotten very low. But 10 years later, throughout austerity? No.

I think it's quite shocking that every pensioner so far (as far as I can tell) has been outraged at this suggestion, called it an attack and basically stated that they are happy for me and my children to foot the bill for their protection for the rest of their lives, and that they don't feel they should have to make even that one sacrifice. What does that say about the mentality?

What do I want from you? "Fair enough" would be a start. An acknowledgement that the young are being royally screwed in an economic sense in this country and have been for more than a decade. I would be very interested in hearing any ideas you might have for how people of your age could contribute economically to paying the bills for this

You make rather a lot of sweeping assumptions, the main ones being that pensioners are hardly economically active, and that they don't pay much tax. I know pensioners who are paying higher rate PAYE, who are still working because they need to, or just want to, and we all pay VAT. Not to mention the vast amounts of indirect tax they create through , for example, a couple I know who pay circa £50k a year to live in a care home (short term proceeds of a small house they used to live in). Not to mention the ultimate tax - death duty.

Just like all generations there are many who are well off, but there are also many living off the basic pension circa £7,000 per year. No one in work lives in such poverty as many pensioners, particularly single women. My own wife has worked from the age of 15 and has ended up with zero pension on top of the state pension after working 15 years full time and more part time..

Doesn't personally bother me what they do with the state pension, but it is rather ironic that Labour supporters think they want to help the poor, but then use their blinkered view of the elderly to hit the people who are poorest.

The "theoretical" best approach is a means tested approach, but in reality the means testing often costs more than the savings, and imagine the effect on future generations who may decide that it isn't worth investing in a pension, if you just lose from the state a large part of what you have spent years saving.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/aug/18/elderly-poverty-risen-fivefold-since-80s-pensions
 
. No one would steal life savings (although, you might be interested to know that your fascists in Germany did exactly this via Mefo bills)

Can't see if they actually did it, but wasn't that the plan in Cyprus. And the money had to be raised for what ? Paying off debts to the EU !
 
Were you not under the protection of the police in that time?

Did you drive on roads that were maintained with those taxes? You may even have been there as brand new motorways were built with your tax money.

Did you have children who went to state school with those taxes, or perhaps went to university at heavily subsidised rates? Because even if you didn't, you would have been looked after at some point by professionals who did.

Was your country invaded by the Soviets in that time? No, because your taxes paid for an army to stop that (along with nuclear weapon deterrent)

Regardless of whether you used your doctor or not, you were able to go to work each day safe in the knowledge that if you did get sick it wouldn't bankrupt you.

As for work, you lived in an era of nearly full employment due to the nationalisation of industries. Whatever private line of work you were in, you had neighbours who had jobs because of your taxes and a lot of people you enjoyed socialising with could afford to do so because of those taxes.

You used subsidised trains because of those taxes. You had lights that came on, water that ran from a tap and coal to put in your fire because they were subsidised (in your day) by those taxes.

Coming from a generation that is categorically told that organising a sustainable pension income is our responsibility, I really have no sympathy with the argument that your state pension, after just 20 years of contribution, is a pittance.

I have even less time for the argument that you paid taxes and got nothing back, so someone of your generation is owed a freebie on COVID- which was Poacher's original argument

Oh dear Pope, that was the sort of reply that I was anticipating, but hoped for better. Let me make it clear that so far as I know the UK system of income tax in my time has not changed, I've never begrudged paying it and am lucky in that I've never had to benefit from it. And I don't set their rules either.
I've always had the opinion that income tax was designed to help pay current expenses and have never had to question that view. I thought that you folk in the UK would all receive the Covid vaccine free of charge as we do in Aus. Is that not the case ?
 
I see.

So debts to the EU are illegitimate are they?

Again, you totally misinterpret what I put. Just rather ironic that the good old EU forces a country into a position where it considers having to raid the wealth of its citizens (and Brits and Russians etc) to pay off debts. Been to Cyprus on many occasions, but must admit I can't remember how they ended up in that situation. (In fact I was there when Covid first started in March) .Similar to Greece I guess, where not having your own currency proves problematic.
Did Cyprus actually raid the bank accounts, as good old google seems to be letting me down on this one. ?
 
Do I remember correctly that you are a former Civil Servant?

If so, you should be thanking the tax payers for subsidising your wages over the years and for the inflated Pension you retired on.

And you will not have worked for anything like 60 Years; leaving school at 16 would equal a retirement age of 76 which is bollocks.

No doubt you left school at 9, worked down the pit, lived in a hole in the road and got up 3 hours before you went to bed; luxury!
Prat I left school at 14 worked all my life unlike you. BTW try again, not a civil servant
 
So you're a tory stooge if you don't get behind the Labour leader....
But then surely that makes pretty much the entire Labour frontbench tory stooges.
So we... can criticize them? Or no?
I'm confused.

Criticising (are you American?) Is fine. Relentlessly posting memes not so much.
 
I'm not convinced I identified boomers. I'm fairly sure I identified over 60s. No one would steal life savings (although, you might be interested to know that your fascists in Germany did exactly this via Mefo bills) but there are several ways that those with hoarded wealth could be made to pay a share; taxes on second homes for instance have long been mooted as a way to alleviate some of the housing crisis and make sure those that are wealthiest pay more.


No, your generation is the wealthiest in history



I agree, although it isn't really the young people who keep electing these horrendous Tory governments is it?



Something genuinely constructive. I agree wholeheartedly. However, if you see my previous reply to JC, I'm afraid your Triple lock is inevitably doomed for other reasons



I mentioned it because it led nicely on to my next point, which was about the current COVID crisis and triple lock and began with something like "what your taxes do not entitle you to....". It was a response to Poacher, who has thsi fantasy that his £100k lifetime taxes entitles him to complete immunity from mucking in with the rest of the country to pay for all of this.



Oh no. The current Tory goverbment has already raised my pension age until late 60's- early 70's. I am in a unique position in my field whereby someone contracted ONE DAY earlier than me will have to work 5 fewer years and will receive a lump sum. Your generation's pensions have proved so expensive that pension schemes across the country are a fraction of what they were. There is a real element of the drawbridge being pulled up on younger generations, you can hardly deny that
Pure jealousy
 
Pure jealousy
I forgot to mention that you and many others on here are in the "I have nothing camp whilst us boomers are living it up " pure unadulterated jealousy , meanwhile I will continue to enjoy life to it's fullest and spend spend spend after all its my money. If it runs out then at least I can fall back on benefits that I have paid into, not that you youngsters are interested in hard work but claim for everything within the benefits system which we boomers paid heavily into over the many years. Don't forget you too will be a pensioner one day what side of the fence will you be on then.. Reflect.
 
I forgot to mention that you and many others on here are in the "I have nothing camp whilst us boomers are living it up " pure unadulterated jealousy , meanwhile I will continue to enjoy life to it's fullest and spend spend spend after all its my money. If it runs out then at least I can fall back on benefits that I have paid into, not that you youngsters are interested in hard work but claim for everything within the benefits system which we boomers paid heavily into over the many years. Don't forget you too will be a pensioner one day what side of the fence will you be on then.. Reflect.

Take your own advice and reflect.