#COVID19

[Calvin Plummer]

We are talking about supermarket workers.

If they feed you as well, then you clearly go to a more expensive and kinky supermarket than I do.

We are also talking about low skilled jobs that take no specialist training and, callous as it sounds, will always have people who can step in and do them.

Ah so it's about skills then? To be a primary school teacher you just need GCSEs and a supplementary course, to be a copper you need A levels? So as they're easily replaced they should be way down the priority list.

Incidentally what about water technicians? Logistics experts in the food industry? Engineers? They're clearly more highly trained, harder to replace and ultimately provide far more important basic services than teachers.

As I said once we start playing the game of which profession is more valuable it becomes totally subjective and complex. Which people are most likely to die is not.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Ah so it's about skills then? To be a primary school teacher you just need GCSEs and a supplementary course, to be a copper you need A levels? So as they're easily replaced they should be way down the priority list.

Incidentally what about water technicians? Logistics experts in the food industry? Engineers? They're clearly more highly trained, harder to replace and ultimately provide far more important basic services than teachers.

As I said once we start playing the game of which profession is more valuable it becomes totally subjective and complex. Which people are most likely to die is not.

At what point have we ever discussed water technicians?

Are water technicians working in an environment with a pronounced risk of transmission of COVID?

What about logistics experts? Where does their disproportionate risk of catching it come from?

You see, I can absolutely see how police are largely powerless to protect themselves from it. I know how difficult it is to protect yourself from possible transmission in a school environment.

I'm not sure about an equivalent impossibility with water technicians?

No one is talking about being "down the priority list". You choose to look at it like that. In your thinking, I am down the priority list from you, and you are down the list from Mrs Pope. I'm not sure it's really like that.

We are talking about including some extra people into one of the low priority groups. I'm quite interested in your view that the police actually aren't very important. I'm glad for you if your life has been sufficiently sheltered to hold that view. From a teaching point of view, we tend to need the police at least once a week

 

[in_the_top_one]

This debate is the reason they're going with age. It is very hard to rank people or professions.

Given we know that economic downturns cause deaths, we should really be protecting the bankers first.

 

[Old Red Fart]

One of the benefits of being an old fogie is that I've learned to take the advice of the experts in the field and then to follow it. It's worked pretty well for me so far.
And these days I seem to take more pleasure in minor things as well.
I'll quote you one now. Last week my youngest great granddaughter, 3 years old, came up to me and said "Poppy, I can wipe my own bum". Inwardly I was laughing my head off, outwardly though I managed to keep a straight face and replied "That's really good". We all walked away happy. And it's come to mind several times since, resulting in a smile every time.
But regarding Covid, we still have a number of friends and relatives in the UK and the message still seems to come through that the UK Govt is not doing a good enough job and also that there's too many members of the public flouting the rules.
In NSW we have just managed over 40 days (that includes Sydney, population 6 million aprox) with no new local cases, just a few in isolation from incoming flyers and that is due largely to strict rules and regulations supported by police and fines. We are due to get the jabs rolling this month (March), a bit late but I think as a country we are well on the way to learning to live with it. And as a bonus things in general are on their way back to normal.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

This debate is the reason they're going with age. It is very hard to rank people or professions.

Given we know that economic downturns cause deaths, we should really be protecting the bankers first.

Tbh that's more logical than Pope's perspective and highlights my point.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

At what point have we ever discussed water technicians?

Are water technicians working in an environment with a pronounced risk of transmission of COVID?

What about logistics experts? Where does their disproportionate risk of catching it come from?

You see, I can absolutely see how police are largely powerless to protect themselves from it. I know how difficult it is to protect yourself from possible transmission in a school environment.

I'm not sure about an equivalent impossibility with water technicians?

No one is talking about being "down the priority list". You choose to look at it like that. In your thinking, I am down the priority list from you, and you are down the list from Mrs Pope. I'm not sure it's really like that.

We are talking about including some extra people into one of the low priority groups. I'm quite interested in your view that the police actually aren't very important. I'm glad for you if your life has been sufficiently sheltered to hold that view. From a teaching point of view, we tend to need the police at least once a week

Maybe ITTO has explained it more succinctly down below...Once you make exceptions for one group then you are clearly prioritising based on a perception of value. The conversation is no longer about death rates, you want special treatment for certain professionals irrespective of their actual mortality rate.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...azilian-covid-variant-being-sought-in-england

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Maybe ITTO has explained it more succinctly down below...Once you make exceptions for one group then you are clearly prioritising based on a perception of value. The conversation is no longer about death rates, you want special treatment for certain professionals irrespective of their actual mortality rate.

The whole thing is irrespective of mortality rate now. That's the whole point. We are talking about the "low" risk groups.

I am talking about three groups (police, prison officers and teachers) that have demonstrated proven problems with being able to function at full capacity in the midst of COVID, and who are all extremely easy to organise vaccinations for due to their structure.

You can replace most supermarket workers with a temp to keep things going if they are self isolating. That may not appeal to your woke agenda, but it is largely the case. You cannot just replace a police officer of a teacher. No one else in my school can do the job I do. If I am self isolating I can do maybe 75% of my management work but not my teaching.

We have seen widespread problems already; with officers being off or self isolating throughout the year, or year groups being sent home because of outbreaks with teachers.

Water technicians cannot easily be replaced. But I am not aware of any proven problems with water technicians being overly exposed to the virus. Nor logistics managers.

Please avoid the temptation to personalise this, get insulting or attribute my disagreeing with you to a character flaw. We are just debating. I will be waiting until July for my vaccine no matter what is said here. You fully agree with JCVI (why wouldn't you? It benefits you slightly). I am simply debating the merits of a different approach that will never see the light of day.

 

[Woanz]

Just as a point of order teachers can easily be replaced as most people who are home schooling will be able to testify.

 

[da fuq]

Or imagine "being on the same side" as them

I know right imagine having predominantly the same beliefs as these insular cowardly backward fuckwits for decades.

Being manipulated by the same group of billionaires that absolutely have the common man thinking that they are fighting for them ( they are so easily manipulated ) when they are not and these fuckers play the blame games not at who should be the target but at the EU

Then these fucking bottom dwelling ***** have an epiphany moment and even they realise hold on this fucking stupid...no really what an utter fucking mess this would be. Even though we hate those of different colours, because we want to keep fucking our nearest relatives, we can see we need to stay in the EU

Imagine that

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Just as a point of order teachers can easily be replaced as most people who are home schooling will be able to testify.

You can teach A Level can you?

Most parents are not home schooling- they are helping their kids to do work that professional teachers have designed.

 

[radfordinlondon]

This debate is the reason they're going with age. It is very hard to rank people or professions.

Given we know that economic downturns cause deaths, we should really be protecting the bankers first.

Yes, lets not do stuff that is hard 😆

 

[Strett]

This debate is the reason they're going with age. It is very hard to rank people or professions.

Given we know that economic downturns cause deaths, we should really be protecting the bankers first.

Bankers don't create the wealth of the nation, but they as damn sure can lose it!

 

[in_the_top_one]

Yes, lets not do stuff that is hard 😆

I think they're just gambling that schools and the police will hold up. If not, they can easily justify a week of priority vaccination and the results will be seen several weeks after that.
I'm not saying it is the best strategy, but it is the simplest and hardest to argue against.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

The whole thing is irrespective of mortality rate now. That's the whole point. We are talking about the "low" risk groups.

I am talking about three groups (police, prison officers and teachers) that have demonstrated proven problems with being able to function at full capacity in the midst of COVID, and who are all extremely easy to organise vaccinations for due to their structure.

You can replace most supermarket workers with a temp to keep things going if they are self isolating. That may not appeal to your woke agenda, but it is largely the case. You cannot just replace a police officer of a teacher. No one else in my school can do the job I do. If I am self isolating I can do maybe 75% of my management work but not my teaching.

We have seen widespread problems already; with officers being off or self isolating throughout the year, or year groups being sent home because of outbreaks with teachers.

Water technicians cannot easily be replaced. But I am not aware of any proven problems with water technicians being overly exposed to the virus. Nor logistics managers.

Please avoid the temptation to personalise this, get insulting or attribute my disagreeing with you to a character flaw. We are just debating. I will be waiting until July for my vaccine no matter what is said here. You fully agree with JCVI (why wouldn't you? It benefits you slightly). I am simply debating the merits of a different approach that will never see the light of day.

And you dislike it, why wouldn't you? Especially given your general attitude towards face masks and social distancing.

We are into lower risk groups but as I said you misread the data and there is a big difference between 400 and 24,000. That's a substantial number of very ill people and more pressure on the NHS.

For the record yup I could teach A levels and an enormous amount of people could replace primary school teachers. The bar for teaching is not particularly high, and while there are some great teachers there is an awful lot of mediocrity and worse...

 

[radfordinlondon]

And you dislike it, why wouldn't you? Especially given your general attitude towards face masks and social distancing.

We are into lower risk groups but as I said you misread the data and there is a big difference between 400 and 24,000. That's a substantial number of very ill people and more pressure on the NHS.

For the record yup I could teach A levels and an enormous amount of people could replace primary school teachers. The bar for teaching is not particularly high, and while there are some great teachers there is an awful lot of mediocrity and worse...

Glad u said that at the end, anyone can teach but not many can do it well!

 

[i am a tree]

80% of my teachers in school were rubbish. I learned more from reading the textbook than I did from them.
The other 20% were invaluable and it was the ones who taught me non academic stuff in addition to the curriculum who interesting to listen to.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

And you dislike it, why wouldn't you? Especially given your general attitude towards face masks and social distancing.

We are into lower risk groups but as I said you misread the data and there is a big difference between 400 and 24,000. That's a substantial number of very ill people and more pressure on the NHS.

For the record yup I could teach A levels and an enormous amount of people could replace primary school teachers. The bar for teaching is not particularly high, and while there are some great teachers there is an awful lot of mediocrity and worse...

Ok, we'll leave the debate there given that you are taking this down a bit of a nasty road

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Ok, we'll leave the debate there given that you are taking this down a bit of a nasty road

What's the nasty bit? It's reality, teachers are of varied quality. From life changing to bullies and abusers. The vast majority are well meaning but mediocre.

Or did you mean you confusing 400 with 24,000? I was hardly nasty about your error.

Similarly your belief that only low skilled workers who are easily replaceable are responsible for our food, water, power etc is patently wrong. Even if it was true, so what? They're still people trying to eek out a life for themselves and their family, you might view them as easily replaceable but I'm uncomfortable assigning worth to people in the way you have.

Hence why for once the government is pursuing the correct path of a simple and effective solution that most readily cuts deaths, cuts pressure on the NHS without having to value one person's worth over another.

 

[Strett]

And you dislike it, why wouldn't you? Especially given your general attitude towards face masks and social distancing.

We are into lower risk groups but as I said you misread the data and there is a big difference between 400 and 24,000. That's a substantial number of very ill people and more pressure on the NHS.

For the record yup I could teach A levels and an enormous amount of people could replace primary school teachers. The bar for teaching is not particularly high, and while there are some great teachers there is an awful lot of mediocrity and worse...

I think that's harsh.
Many people's profession can be viewed from the outside and dumbed down; there are qualities in each profession that cannot be taught which are often overlooked: Patience, empathy, etc. which you need in spades to be a teacher (especially one of primary school age).
To compound this, everyone has been to school, ergo everyone knows what it's like to be a teacher, right?

It's a profession that is probably within me from a purely educational attainment background, but as much out of my reach, as a professional footballer is for the other qualities demanded, which I know I don't have.