#COVID19 | Page 877 | Vital Football

#COVID19

in_the_top_one said:
Community levels of flu are down by 95% compared with the 5 year average.
You could go down some rabbit hole about misdiagnosis here but I wouldn't bother. This is based on community testing and lab diagnostics in 71 countries.
Lockdown, social distancing, washing hands, screens, masks (to a lesser extent for flu) will all be contributing to this.

It raises the question not of why we shouldn't accept 20k covid deaths a year, but why we currently accept 20k flu deaths a year. I'm not suggesting lockdown every winter, but some changes in practice and behaviour have been less draconian and will have been important in reducing flu.

Maybe try seeing it as a positive, rather than a conspiracy or mistake. Strett thinks zero covid is a ridiculous fantasy and yet we have come pretty damn close to zero flu!
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This is massively it. How many of you have had less common colds this year as well?
 
Woanz said:
This is massively it. How many of you have had less common colds this year as well?
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we dont accept 20k flu deaths, the typical is half that at worst and we are nowadays jabbing folk plus now we know many of these are preventable too taking some of the covid guidelines into acccount.
 
in_the_top_one said:
The point is that vaccinating only a small percentage only protects that percentage against the virus that has been vaccinated against.
Sounds straight forward / obvious, right?

If you leave 'the' virus to circulate in a vast number of humans, it will soon evade the protections gifted by vaccination. If the changes are small then serious disease and death is likely to still be avoided when new strains are encountered by vaccinated people but that strategy has little longevity.

Not many believe zero covid is likely long term (but it clearly is possible. See NZ).
However, aiming for very low numbers is obviously desirable for many reasons. In fact, we have a de facto zero measles policy, a de facto zero mumps policy, a de facto zero rubella policy, polio, SARS, Ebola, MERS, Zika, Tuberculosis, bubonic plague, leprosy, etc, and so on for many diseases.
For those diseases, nobody flippantly says, as you just did (and I paraphrase), "it will become an endemic virus and people will die".
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virus and diseases not quite the same thing of course but valid points for sure, we have to aim for zero to keep it low, aiming for 20k could literally end up 2 million in no time
 
in_the_top_one said:
Frightening infographic of the day.

View attachment 46410
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It's fair to point out though that in the case of Australia there is the intention to spread our vaccines through the Pacific islands as well and there would be a fair number of people involved. The chances of getting our cash back are remote, no blame attached, that's the way the world is.
And I'll bet we aren't the only ones either.
 
Old Red Fart said:
It's fair to point out though that in the case of Australia there is the intention to spread our vaccines through the Pacific islands as well and there would be a fair number of people involved. The chances of getting our cash back are remote, no blame attached, that's the way the world is.
And I'll bet we aren't the only ones either.
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We won’t, we’ll sit on our shitty little rain soaked island droning on about who won the war.


With the butcher sat like Gollum hoarding his PRECIOUS vaccine to mask the catastrophic mistakes he presided over.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Better to make up figures like this:

2017
flu deaths 10,000
covid deaths 0
total 10,000 deaths
expected deaths = 10,000
excess deaths = 0

2021
flu deaths 0
covid deaths 120,000
total 120,000 deaths.
expected deaths = 10,000
excess deaths = 110,000 (ten thousand covid deaths missing from the figures)

Not a swap, and actually pretty close to the truth.
#thanksBoris
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I was actually going to give that a like until i read your last snide remark.
 
in_the_top_one said:
The point is that vaccinating only a small percentage only protects that percentage against the virus that has been vaccinated against.
Sounds straight forward / obvious, right?

If you leave 'the' virus to circulate in a vast number of humans, it will soon evade the protections gifted by vaccination. If the changes are small then serious disease and death is likely to still be avoided when new strains are encountered by vaccinated people but that strategy has little longevity.

Not many believe zero covid is likely long term (but it clearly is possible. See NZ).
However, aiming for very low numbers is obviously desirable for many reasons. In fact, we have a de facto zero measles policy, a de facto zero mumps policy, a de facto zero rubella policy, polio, SARS, Ebola, MERS, Zika, Tuberculosis, bubonic plague, leprosy, etc, and so on for many diseases.
For those diseases, nobody flippantly says, as you just did (and I paraphrase), "it will become an endemic virus and people will die".
Click to expand...

I was referring to an endemic virus and I gave flu as the example. That is the flu that kills 40,000 in a bad year, mainly has a target audience similar to that of Covid.
Should there be policy that costs the economy billions going forward to get to zero-flu?

You refer to viruses which have, in the main, lifetime immunity from a vaccine and a robust immunisation policy that has been honed over years, the comparison was good for likes, was not worthy of posting.

I do realise academics who have had little exposure to reality, or the negative effects a recession causes, (full pay wankers, I think is one of the more disparaging remarks made when the people advising these measures are not actually effected by the implementation) along with hard left socialists, who also have a slender grip on fiscal reality; want us to be controlled buy the state ad nauseum, but reality is different from the fantasy nirvarnism of zero covid which many peddle.
 
Boris Johnson's poor leadership, optimism in the face of facts, tory backbenchers' antiscience, tory journalist antiscience, and procurement cronyism have all contributed to the UK suffering one of the worst death tolls, worst economic downturns and longest periods of restrictions in the world.

Vaccine investment, procurement and roll out, largely orchestrated by the same government, has been good for the UK.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Community levels of flu are down by 95% compared with the 5 year average.
You could go down some rabbit hole about misdiagnosis here but I wouldn't bother. This is based on community testing and lab diagnostics in 71 countries.
Lockdown, social distancing, washing hands, screens, masks (to a lesser extent for flu) will all be contributing to this.

It raises the question not of why we shouldn't accept 20k covid deaths a year, but why we currently accept 20k flu deaths a year. I'm not suggesting lockdown every winter, but some changes in practice and behaviour have been less draconian and will have been important in reducing flu.

Maybe try seeing it as a positive, rather than a conspiracy or mistake. Strett thinks zero covid is a ridiculous fantasy and yet we have come pretty damn close to zero flu!
Click to expand...

Through masks and social distancing. People are also more wise to vaccines. I've had both flu and covid, which for me flu was worse.
I have the flu jab every year as you don't want that, and flu jabs this year were massively increased, so much so there was a shortage before Xmas.

Zero Covid is a ridiculous fantasy.
 
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in_the_top_one said:
Boris Johnson's poor leadership, optimism in the face of facts, tory backbenchers' antiscience, tory journalist antiscience, and procurement cronyism have all contributed to the UK suffering one of the worst death tolls, worst economic downturns and longest periods of restrictions in the world.

Vaccine investment, procurement and roll out, largely orchestrated by the same government, has been good for the UK.
Click to expand...
Youve gone and spoiled it again now. Consider my like withdrawn.
 
Woanz said:
We won’t, we’ll sit on our shitty little rain soaked island droning on about who won the war.


With the butcher sat like Gollum hoarding his PRECIOUS vaccine to mask the catastrophic mistakes he presided over.
Click to expand...

Always about the war with some.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Boris Johnson's poor leadership, optimism in the face of facts, tory backbenchers' antiscience, tory journalist antiscience, and procurement cronyism have all contributed to the UK suffering one of the worst death tolls, worst economic downturns and longest periods of restrictions in the world.

Vaccine investment, procurement and roll out, largely orchestrated by the same government, has been good for the UK.
Click to expand...

Sturgeon, Drakeford too. Boris isn't responsible for the equally high figures in the devolved councils, as well you know.
 
jbacsta said:
Youve gone and spoiled it again now. Consider my like withdrawn.
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I separated them so you could like the one you agreed with and not like / argue against the one you didn't. Is that too hard?

At least you read them. Strett has argued against things I didn't say, claims I'm detached from the real world, and called me a full pay ****** before I've even finished my second cup of tea today.
 
in_the_top_one said:
I separated them so you could like the one you agreed with and not like / argue against the one you didn't. Is that too hard?

At least you read them. Strett has argued against things I didn't say, claims I'm detached from the real world, and called me a full pay ****** before I've even finished my second cup of tea today.
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Lol, I've not called you any of that. I've no idea what it is you do. You could be a barra-boy for all I know.

I was having a dig at the medical academics who are advising government on one issue and one issue alone.

Life is about risks, people know them by now.

Hopefully the effect of small habitual behavioural changes, along with good hand hygiene (one of my perennial pet hates, especially blokes in public toilets) the prevalence of other viruses, flu, meningitis, covid, heck even the common cold should now be reduced.
 
Strett said:
Sturgeon, Drakeford too. Boris isn't responsible for the equally high figures in the devolved councils, as well you know.
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Despite your vociferous criticism of Wales (and reliance on the 'fact' that vaccinations trump all else), Wales was faster than England to vaccinate the top four groups and are still ahead of England in terms of the percentage of population vaccinated.
 
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