#COVID19 | Page 395 | Vital Football

#COVID19

Old Red Fart

Vital Football Hero
It's horrifying.
At least very few of them, proportionally, will die. But they will be spreading it all around to the vulnerable.
Look where it is occurring though. Mostly the red states. Ergh. :sick:

That's 'leadership' for you.
The UK and USA are reaping what they have sewn electorally. So sad.
So much lies. So little accountability.
It's your patriotic duty to go to the pub, but if you do, and you or your loved ones die, then it's totally your fault.
Also fuck other countries (cos we're special). Stanley didn't just abuse our rules, he abused those of Greece and Bulgaria. Utter twat.
It's a lousy mess and what makes it worse is that a large proportion of the deaths was probably avoidable, unfortunately in the USA and to some extent in the UK your leaders are pathetic and set a rotten example. So far there appears to be no sign of improvement, and in the USA in particular they seem to be quite unable to learn from what they are experiencing and it's obvious that with Trump in charge nothing's going to change. Could be that Trump will be gone before the virus is eliminated.
Here we have another spike originating in Melbourne, turns out that travellers isolated for two weeks in hotels with guards supplied by security firms being in short supply and some firms hiring labour off the street with no knowledge of the proper job resulting in a real bogup, at times with some of the guards playing about with the occupants. And then the odd person proceeding to NSW and spreading it even further. And that's how it is here at the moment, even with the Govt working hard, much harder than some.
And the knowledge that younger people are now dying from it makes it even harder for old fogies with large families.

Life used to be so much simpler.
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
It's a lousy mess and what makes it worse is that a large proportion of the deaths was probably avoidable, unfortunately in the USA and to some extent in the UK your leaders are pathetic and set a rotten example. So far there appears to be no sign of improvement, and in the USA in particular they seem to be quite unable to learn from what they are experiencing and it's obvious that with Trump in charge nothing's going to change. Could be that Trump will be gone before the virus is eliminated.
Here we have another spike originating in Melbourne, turns out that travellers isolated for two weeks in hotels with guards supplied by security firms being in short supply and some firms hiring labour off the street with no knowledge of the proper job resulting in a real bogup, at times with some of the guards playing about with the occupants. And then the odd person proceeding to NSW and spreading it even further. And that's how it is here at the moment, even with the Govt working hard, much harder than some.
And the knowledge that younger people are now dying from it makes it even harder for old fogies with large families.

Life used to be so much simpler.
If they were just pathetic, as in incompetent, I could actually live with it a little easier.

But this is far more sinister. If you look at the countries that have done badly they have politics in common. This crisis is political.
Thanks to the rise of popularism, we have been subjected to years of anti-establishment rhetoric. We need an establishment! What Trump, Bannan, Johnson, Gove, Cummings, JC21, etc have done is to sew seeds of distrust in the establishment. Much of it has been based on lies.
The establishment we need, in this case, is reputable and trustworthy government, a trusted police force enforcing the law without prejudice and with the consent of all, a trusted scientific community, a trusted judiciary, a trusted and impartial news media (or at least partial more or less equally to both sides), a trusted civil service, trust in international agreements, trust in the fairness of elections and referenda, trust in healthcare, trust in the protection of our rights and the environment. Each of those had been undermined.
Society cannot be administrated by us lowly individuals on an individual basis. A successful society requires putting our trust in institutions that collectively you could call the establishment. Nobody believes for one moment that it is, will be, or ever has been, anywhere close to perfect in any society that has ever existed but modern society can only function when the establishment functions to some degree.

Now the liars are in charge, voted in by people who knew perfectly well that they were liars but had drunk enough koolaid about the EU and Corbyn not to care. As though they thought we were under attack from Brussels, foreigners in general and a red under the bed, and thought we needed to do what had to be done no matter how unpleasant. Many probably preferred the optimism that Johnson and Trump exude like intoxicating mucus over the reality of our issues. Some voted through fear; some voted for hope. Twas ever thus.

Pope may bring up better examples but I think we have the most untrusted and untrustworthy system we have ever had.

Where does this end? How can any progress be made on climate change under this diabolical regime?
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
I've been successfully shielding so far because I'm extremely high risk due to my kidneys not working.
My housemate has to go back to work in the pub tomorrow and frankly i'm bricking it. Its a fucking disgrace opening them this early.
Blame Cummings.

And, seriously, good luck. If you're both careful or should be fine. I'd ask your housemate to wash hands and then shower asap when they get home. Maybe they could keep their work clothes there? If you're lucky enough to be able to use separate bathrooms or toilets in your place, then do. Wash your hands religiously, even in your own home. Try not to share a sofa if there is another comfy chair available. Don't sit opposite each other at the table. Take care to keep a very clean kitchen, spray surfaces (kitchen, stair rail, door knobs), etc. Seriously consider wearing masks (any type, including home made) when you are both at home, if practical.


Don't worry too much.
Even if one person in the house has it (and hopefully the pub will be as covid-safe as possible so your housemate will be well protected) the chances of another member of the household getting it are 'only' 25%. If you can use separate bathrooms that rate drops four-fold, making the odds really quite low. If you wear masks, it is *another* four-fold drop! Washing hands / strict cleanliness regimen, again, another big drop.
Take care and you should be fine.


But still blame Cummings and this dreadful vote leave government.
 

i am a tree

Vital 1st Team Regular
Blame Cummings.

And, seriously, good luck. If you're both careful or should be fine. I'd ask your housemate to wash hands and then shower asap when they get home. Maybe they could keep their work clothes there? If you're lucky enough to be able to use separate bathrooms or toilets in your place, then do. Wash your hands religiously, even in your own home. Try not to share a sofa if there is another comfy chair available. Don't sit opposite each other at the table. Take care to keep a very clean kitchen, spray surfaces (kitchen, stair rail, door knobs), etc. Seriously consider wearing masks (any type, including home made) when you are both at home, if practical.


Don't worry too much.
Even if one person in the house has it (and hopefully the pub will be as covid-safe as possible so your housemate will be well protected) the chances of another member of the household getting it are 'only' 25%. If you can use separate bathrooms that rate drops four-fold, making the odds really quite low. If you wear masks, it is *another* four-fold drop! Washing hands / strict cleanliness regimen, again, another big drop.
Take care and you should be fine.


But still blame Cummings and this dreadful vote leave government.
Thats all very good advice. I am with nurses alot and they pretty much told me the same thing tbh. Except for blaming Cummings, but I blame him anyway.

I'm wondering though, as is my housemate, how staff in pubs are supposed to make sure everyone is social distancing on a Saturday night when no-one's been to the pub in months.

I don't think its possible. Why didn't they open pubs for the first time on a Monday, not a Saturday? Its insane, as if they are begging for as much damage as possible.
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
Thats all very good advice. I am with nurses alot and they pretty much told me the same thing tbh. Except for blaming Cummings, but I blame him anyway.

I'm wondering though, as is my housemate, how staff in pubs are supposed to make sure everyone is social distancing on a Saturday night when no-one's been to the pub in months.

I don't think its possible. Why didn't they open pubs for the first time on a Monday, not a Saturday? Its insane, as if they are begging for as much damage as possible.
It's difficult to tell whether it's malevolent or incompetence. The result can be the same. We do know that it is not the scientific advice. That's just gone right out the window.


"
An epidemiologist, an ICU doctor, and a scientist walk into a bar..

Just kidding
"
 
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JC21

Vital 1st Team Regular
If they were just pathetic, as in incompetent, I could actually live with it a little easier.

But this is far more sinister. If you look at the countries that have done badly they have politics in common. This crisis is political.
Thanks to the rise of popularism, we have been subjected to years of anti-establishment rhetoric. We need an establishment! What Trump, Bannan, Johnson, Gove, Cummings, JC21, etc have done is to sew seeds of distrust in the establishment. Much of it has been based on lies.
The establishment we need, in this case, is reputable and trustworthy government, a trusted police force enforcing the law without prejudice and with the consent of all, a trusted scientific community, a trusted judiciary, a trusted and impartial news media (or at least partial more or less equally to both sides), a trusted civil service, trust in international agreements, trust in the fairness of elections and referenda, trust in healthcare, trust in the protection of our rights and the environment. Each of those had been undermined.
Society cannot be administrated by us lowly individuals on an individual basis. A successful society requires putting our trust in institutions that collectively you could call the establishment. Nobody believes for one moment that it is, will be, or ever has been, anywhere close to perfect in any society that has ever existed but modern society can only function when the establishment functions to some degree.

Now the liars are in charge, voted in by people who knew perfectly well that they were liars but had drunk enough koolaid about the EU and Corbyn not to care. As though they thought we were under attack from Brussels, foreigners in general and a red under the bed, and thought we needed to do what had to be done no matter how unpleasant. Many probably preferred the optimism that Johnson and Trump exude like intoxicating mucus over the reality of our issues. Some voted through fear; some voted for hope. Twas ever thus.

Pope may bring up better examples but I think we have the most untrusted and untrustworthy system we have ever had.

Where does this end? How can any progress be made on climate change under this diabolical regime?
You really don't know what 'the Establishment' is, do you?
 

Old Red Fart

Vital Football Hero
I'm sure that I give you blokes the pip at times when I refer to the old days and the like but in many ways it is correct. There wasn't the cash about nor the chance to earn a great deal either so many folk were used to just existing without the sort of choices we have these days. My folks never owned a house, just rented and thought themselves lucky that they had a roof over their head but from memory the politicians in general did a pretty good job, nothing like the pretenders that most countries seem to have now and that includes Australia. And this is the good life because in general we all put up with it, live reasonably well in spite of a good many things being wrong and forget about the rest of the world.

Think it's time I went to bed and gave my brain a rest.
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
You really don't know what 'the Establishment' is, do you?
I understand your version of the establishment.
I was clearly referring to a more traditional establishment. The word can mean many things. Even a pub.
I defined my use of the word very clearly and added "institutions that collectively you could call the establishment".

There is obviously some overlap in personnel with the establishment to which you refer.
Many of the self-styled anti-establishment politicians (and very special advisors) of today are propped up by your version but undermine my version.

By all means come up with a better term for the group I'm taking about. I'll happily swap if it is useful.
 

JC21

Vital 1st Team Regular
I understand your version of the establishment.
I was clearly referring to a more traditional establishment. The word can mean many things. Even a pub.
I defined my use of the word very clearly and added "institutions that collectively you could call the establishment".

There is obviously some overlap in personnel with the establishment to which you refer.
Many of the self-styled anti-establishment politicians (and very special advisors) of today are propped up by your version but undermine my version.

By all means come up with a better term for the group I'm taking about. I'll happily swap if it is useful.
There should be absolutely no need to, there's already a widely accepted definition when people talk generally about 'the Establishment'. If you think that the likes of Trump and Boris have put a 'distrust' in 'the Establishment' then you really are way off the mark. They ARE a low(ish) level of the establishment, what they've done is convince people they are anti-Establishment'.

Anyway, instead of moaning about me, Trump, Bozo, etc why don't you just keep on with the good fight for the EU along with Cameron, Osborne, May, Heath, etc.
 

Calvin Plummer

Vital Football Legend
Thats all very good advice. I am with nurses alot and they pretty much told me the same thing tbh. Except for blaming Cummings, but I blame him anyway.

I'm wondering though, as is my housemate, how staff in pubs are supposed to make sure everyone is social distancing on a Saturday night when no-one's been to the pub in months.

I don't think its possible. Why didn't they open pubs for the first time on a Monday, not a Saturday? Its insane, as if they are begging for as much damage as possible.
Interestingly or worryingly perhaps the UK hospitality watchdog has been telling people social distancing does not apply to pubs and cafes...
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
There should be absolutely no need to, there's already a widely accepted definition when people talk generally about 'the Establishment'. If you think that the likes of Trump and Boris have put a 'distrust' in 'the Establishment' then you really are way off the mark. They ARE a low(ish) level of the establishment, what they've done is convince people they are anti-Establishment'.

Anyway, instead of moaning about me, Trump, Bozo, etc why don't you just keep on with the good fight for the EU along with Cameron, Osborne, May, Heath, etc.
Such a widely accepted definition that people who are part of it have managed to convince others they are not. How does that add up? In some ways, I agree. In others, maybe it is only as accepted as you suggest on the websites you read?
Like I said, we are clearly talking about different things. You have failed to come up with a better term for my collection of entities.
A quick scan of the oracle that is Wikipedia yields:

"
In the United Kingdom, entrenched groups that form the establishment may[weasel words] include the Royal family, aristocracy (peerage and landed gentry), privy council, civil servants, legal representatives, academics, clergy in the Church of England, financiers, industrialists, teachers and other professionals.[7][8]
"

..which encompasses many of the groups I talked about. Anyone can edit it, why not switch it to your definition instead? Or will The Establishment change it back again to cover their tracks?

While you're at it, you might want to 'correct' their definition of anti-establishment too:
"An anti-establishment view or belief is one which stands in opposition to the conventional social, political, and economic principles of a society. The term was first used in the modern sense in 1958, by the British magazine New Statesman to refer to its political and social agenda. "
 

Calvin Plummer

Vital Football Legend
There should be absolutely no need to, there's already a widely accepted definition when people talk generally about 'the Establishment'. If you think that the likes of Trump and Boris have put a 'distrust' in 'the Establishment' then you really are way off the mark. They ARE a low(ish) level of the establishment, what they've done is convince people they are anti-Establishment'.

Anyway, instead of moaning about me, Trump, Bozo, etc why don't you just keep on with the good fight for the EU along with Cameron, Osborne, May, Heath, etc.
Silly thing to say, you keep railing against the EU along with Tommy Robinson, National Action, Britain First etc? Is that company that you're happy to keep?
 

in_the_top_one

Vital Football Hero
I'm glad you said that as it was done deliberately to highlight how pathetic ITTO's attempt to lump me with Trump, Bannan, Bozo and Cummings was
:rotfl:
But a clever chap like you would have seen that was clearly a wind up. I don't really put you on the same pedestal as those other guys. Sorry for any damage to the ego...

You do all fight the anti-establishment fight, though.

Even the Spectator thinks Johnson is anti-establishment. Johnson ffs!


"
Boris Johnson’s opponents love to accuse him of using the ‘Trump playbook’. Some on the left have become so obsessed with this comparison that they’ve even demanded that the Prime Minister be impeached. But over the past few weeks, Johnson’s behaviour has borne a far closer resemblance to a man he claims to look down on: Jeremy Corbyn.

Both men stand on an anti-politics, anti-establishment platform. When Corbyn became leader he promised a ‘kinder, gentler politics’, and eschewed many of the traditions of the Commons. His advisers still believe that he is going to be the man-of-the-people candidate in the looming election, arguing that attacks from the media only bolster his anti-establishment credentials.

Conversely, Johnson is planning a people vs parliament-themed election, standing up for those who want Brexit against a chaotic and self-indulgent House of Commons. His advisers believe that many of the debates over the rule of law and expelling MPs from the Tory benches have gone over the heads of voters, who just want the government to get on and get Brexit over with.

No one is more vocal about this than Johnson’s top adviser, Dominic Cummings, who this week told reporters that they should ‘get out of London. Go and talk to people who are not rich Remainers’. Westminster has become as fixated on Cummings as it has been on Corbyn’s powerful and rather terrifying aide Seumas Milne.
"
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
Thats all very good advice. I am with nurses alot and they pretty much told me the same thing tbh. Except for blaming Cummings, but I blame him anyway.

I'm wondering though, as is my housemate, how staff in pubs are supposed to make sure everyone is social distancing on a Saturday night when no-one's been to the pub in months.

I don't think its possible. Why didn't they open pubs for the first time on a Monday, not a Saturday? Its insane, as if they are begging for as much damage as possible.
Totally agree with this

Our year 7 and 8s are completely incapable of social distancing. They just won't do it.

Given how drunk wetherspoon's customers have a mental age probably of age 11 at the maximum, I don't see how it will be better.

Tomorrow will either be carnage or a calm before the storm. Even if it is relatively calm, starting on a Monday would always have been calmer