Coronavirus | Page 71 | Vital Football

Coronavirus

cheshireimp

Vital 1st Team Regular
Seriously, I'll go with you to an acute covid ward and we can watch people take their last agonising, gasping death together. We can watch them die and see the terrible fear in their eyes.

I've got the balls to do it. Have you?

Harry57, Bazzzer, Imp79, Swedishimp? Any fucking offers, you utter cowards?

Oh dear , rattles and pram springs to mind .
 
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cheshireimp

Vital 1st Team Regular
My comment at the time was addressing the lack of consistency over the reporting methods from the home nations. My second comment was to say that there appeared to be consistency at that later time.

Both comments were accurate. I fail to see the reason for your aggression.

Yesterday's official death figure was 151. I'm surprised you weren't able to find that for yourself.
My comment at the time was addressing the lack of consistency over the reporting methods from the home nations. My second comment was to say that there appeared to be consistency at that later time.

Both comments were accurate. I fail to see the reason for your aggression.

Yesterday's official death figure was 151. I'm surprised you weren't able to find that for yourself.
I agree the figure was 151 , but the wording of "deaths by any reason within 28 days of a positive test" could be taken as misleading .
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
I agree the figure was 151 , but the wording of "deaths by any reason within 28 days of a positive test" could be taken as misleading .
I think it's time to stop beating this drum, it's a false position
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3220
Frustration
Announcing the new approach—developed with the devolved administrations and the UK Statistics Authority—John Newton, PHE’s director of health improvement, said, “The way we count deaths in people with covid-19 in England was originally chosen to avoid underestimating deaths caused by the virus in the early stages of the pandemic.
“Our analysis of the long term impact of the infection now allows us to move to new methods, which will give us crucial information about both recent trends and overall mortality burden due to covid-19.”
Last month Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, expressed his frustration with discrepancies between PHE’s and the Office for National Statistics’ reporting measures.1
Heneghan and his colleague, Jason Oke of the Nuffield Department of Primary Care Health Sciences at the University of Oxford, said that the new 28 day definition was “a more accurate and sensitive measure of the immediate impact of covid on deaths [which] allows us to better determine if deaths related to covid-19 are trending up or down.”
They consider PHE’s longer time frame to be important and say that it should be used to conduct in-depth analyses of the long term problems resulting from covid.

Missed deaths
David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said, “The 28 day limit marks an improvement . . . but does exclude those who die more than a month after testing, even if they have covid on the death certificate. Including deaths up to 60 days, and later covid registered deaths, seems even better, but still excludes people who were not tested.
“This is a complex area, and there is no truly ‘correct’ count. The Office for National Statistics figure based on registrations should still be considered the best available, but of course even this does not include additional excess deaths that do not have covid on their certificate.”

He added, “PHE have been consistently poor in clarifying both who is included as a covid death and the inevitable delays in reporting, and their dashboard has given the strong impression that the daily count is the actual number of deaths the day before.
“This in turn has influenced how the number is reported by the media and is deeply misleading at this stage of the epidemic, when the reported and the actual daily counts can be very different. I desperately hope that PHE can do more to prevent misinterpretation.”
PHE’s revised definitions do not significantly change the UK’s position in Europe. Heneghan and Oke said, “In terms of total deaths, the UK (and England) remain in the same position above Italy,” adding that “the UK’s death rate (at 609 deaths per million population) is similar to Italy (583) and Spain (611) and above France (465), whereas England’s death rate (at 655 deaths per million) remains higher.”
 

simes69

Vital 1st Team Regular
A fair and honest reply.

I don't even think this is especially a party-political point. I doubt Labour would have done much better in the current political climate. There are only two governments in my life-time I'd have thought might have done better: Thatcher's and Blair's.
It's a fair point, and people of all persuasion know that the government is dealing with a very difficult, in fact unprecedented situation, which is why it's only really starting to become party political now, after 7 months.

I would add that I think Teresa May/Jeremy Hunt would have made a much better fist of it than Johnson/Hancock & Co. Public health is the sort of boring technocratty type of thing they might have been ok with.
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
It's a fair point, and people of all persuasion know that the government is dealing with a very difficult, in fact unprecedented situation, which is why it's only really starting to become party political now, after 7 months.

I would add that I think Teresa May/Jeremy Hunt would have made a much better fist of it than Johnson/Hancock & Co. Public health is the sort of boring technocratty type of thing they might have been ok with.
Agreed, Hunt is a relatively competent politician and, although I disagree with his politics, you'd probably settle for that in a pandemic.
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
Belgium still on target to run out of ICU beds in mid-November
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/27/europe/belgium-coronavirus-hospitals-intl/index.html

At a news conference Monday, Van Laethem said that 1,000 of the country's intensive beds are already being used, with total of 1,250 set to be occupied by the end of the week. Both hospital and intensive care admissions are doubling every eight days, he added.

There's your exponential growth right there...
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
Don't say you weren't warned...

[IMG]https://forums-cdn.vitalfootball.co.uk/data/avatars/m/9/9883.jpg?1525782103[/IMG]
Sincilbanks
Vital 1st Team Regular
May 28, 2020
#473

NottyImp said:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...gland-not-fully-operational-until-end-of-june

I mean, we've only had since January...

Oh Sitel are running the contact centre are they? That might not go so well then...
 

NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
As ever, difficult to interpret that data unless you know the testing rate and regimes that underpin the figures at each stage of the epidemic in both countries.

You then need to factor in societal and demographic differences. For example, Sweden's welfare system is much more generous than the UK's, allowing people to self-isolate much more easily.