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Coronavirus

NottyImp said:
Not a big fan of D. Miliband. A Blairite who supported the illegal Iraq War, for starters. But obviously better than the current incumbent at No. 10.
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I think the trouble with many of us leftists is that we get overcome by morals and hold our representatives to account. The other lot aren't usually bothered about that sort of thing. Party first!

I'm sure most of us at the time disagreed with the Iraq war, and we still don't know the full story of how we were dragged into it by the US (Bush doesn't get anything like the hard time Blair gets on this), but now nearly 20 years later we can't afford to get on our high horses - there are so many important issues to address urgently - pandemic management, climate change, the future of democracy, global poverty, etc. etc. We have to move on from how someone voted 20 years ago, possibly under considerable duress.

And by the way, until the left starts to acknowledge the things Blair did RIGHT, we will never convince waverers or Tories or Lib Dems to vote Labour,
 
simes69 said:
I think the trouble with many of us leftists is that we get overcome by morals and hold our representatives to account. The other lot aren't usually bothered about that sort of thing. Party first!

I'm sure most of us at the time disagreed with the Iraq war, and we still don't know the full story of how we were dragged into it by the US (Bush doesn't get anything like the hard time Blair gets on this), but now nearly 20 years later we can't afford to get on our high horses - there are so many important issues to address urgently - pandemic management, climate change, the future of democracy, global poverty, etc. etc. We have to move on from how someone voted 20 years ago, possibly under considerable duress.

And by the way, until the left starts to acknowledge the things Blair did RIGHT, we will never convince waverers or Tories or Lib Dems to vote Labour,
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We know exactly how we got dragged into the war along with the US. Read Plan of Attack by Bob Woodward
 
simes69 said:
we still don't know the full story of how we were dragged into it by the US (Bush doesn't get anything like the hard time Blair gets on this)
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Sincilbanks said:
We know exactly how we got dragged into the war along with the US. Read Plan of Attack by Bob Woodward
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We actually do know - there was literally nothing the Americans needed to do to get Blair to support a war. The Chilcot report contained a memo from Blair to Bush, dated July 2002 - well before the inspectors had even left Iraq - that gave unqualified British support and said: "I will be with you, whatever." Said memo also contained this line: "If we win quickly, everyone will be our friend. If we don’t... recriminations will start fast."

And they did.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-iraq-inquiry-note-idUSKCN0ZM19S
 
NottyImp said:
Not a big fan of D. Miliband. A Blairite who supported the illegal Iraq War, for starters. But obviously better than the current incumbent at No. 10.
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At the time of that leadership election I also felt that he was too associated as a Blairite to be electable, despite being the best of the candidates. But I think that so much water has now gone under the bridge, both for the Labour Party and the country, that we are crying out for his intellect, character (both shared by Starmer), experience, political nouse and leadership qualities (not shared by Starmer) - in short he is of a higher calibre than any other politician (any party) around at the moment
 
The Iraq war remains a vivid stain on the Labour party - but Blair won an election even after. And from a national point of view it was not even the party's biggest folly of this century; that would be having a leader who wouldn't support our membership of the EU. That simple fact will affect this country far more than the war in Iraq ever did, and for far longer.
 
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Sincilbanks said:
This is where your bullshit "plandemic", anti-vaccine social media whines and rants get you. Some nutjob messiah with a platform attracts a bunch of likeminded morons, all of whom somehow think they are informed because they "don't watch mainstream media" when in fact they are the modern day equivalent of a bunch of peasants armed with pitchforks and torches shouting "storm the castle!"...
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It's not a modern phenomenon, but it is certainly magnified by the modern world. People latch on to these things because it is simply impossible to understand a world that has gone insane, over which they have no control, where the truth is just one of a thousand narratives on Facebook.

And when those in power have turned politics into nothing more than an exercise in despair, this is the result.

Who do I blame? Who do I confront? What's the easiest way for me to feel like I am 'taking back control'? The easy answers are provided by the nutters, the conspiracy theorists, and wouldn't you know it - the fascists.
 
simes69 said:
I think the trouble with many of us leftists is that we get overcome by morals and hold our representatives to account. The other lot aren't usually bothered about that sort of thing. Party first!

I'm sure most of us at the time disagreed with the Iraq war, and we still don't know the full story of how we were dragged into it by the US (Bush doesn't get anything like the hard time Blair gets on this), but now nearly 20 years later we can't afford to get on our high horses - there are so many important issues to address urgently - pandemic management, climate change, the future of democracy, global poverty, etc. etc. We have to move on from how someone voted 20 years ago, possibly under considerable duress.

And by the way, until the left starts to acknowledge the things Blair did RIGHT, we will never convince waverers or Tories or Lib Dems to vote Labour,
Click to expand...

I think if Starmer goes, you're more likely to see Burnham than the "Prince over the water" Miliband. I'm not even sure he's interested.

Although Labour might finally elect a female leader and go for Angela Rayner.
 
NottyImp said:
I think if Starmer goes, you're more likely to see Burnham than the "Prince over the water" Miliband. I'm not even sure he's interested.

Although Labour might finally elect a female leader and go for Angela Rayner.
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Technically Labour have already have two female leaders - our own Margaret Beckett and then Harriet Harman. Both were acting leaders.

Me, I like Zarah Sultana.
 
Ed won thanks to the union block vote.
He was and still is a thoroughly decent human being but the MSM decided to rip him to pieces because he looked and sounded funny unlike pretty posh boy Cameron.
If you can find them watch his party conference speech from 2009 and him tearing Johnson a new one in a brexit debate, both excellent IMHO.
 
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As for the 'nurse' she should be arrested for incitement but as she's part of the government's carefully orchestrated plan to rally the country against the NHS to make enough people think it's no longer fit for purpose and should be privatised, as if we paid more all we would get better care and if you can't tough you lay at the side of the road and die because you're poor and that's all you deserve.
 
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NottyImp said:
I think if Starmer goes, you're more likely to see Burnham than the "Prince over the water" Miliband. I'm not even sure he's interested.

Although Labour might finally elect a female leader and go for Angela Rayner.
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Which would be a disaster, because she would not appeal to 'middle England'.
 
The nasty nurse has said the vaccine will kill everyone who's been double jabbed in two years! Really hope she catches it!
Really wouldn't surprise me if she's actually double jabbed.
 
Davidimp said:
The nasty nurse has said the vaccine will kill everyone who's been double jabbed in two years! Really hope she catches it!
Really wouldn't surprise me if she's actually double jabbed.
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Better get that life-insurance policy sorted! :lol:

I see another fruit-cake - Piers Corbyn - has caught covid.
 
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