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Coronavirus

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
If a self employed hasn’t made a profit, what happens then?
I think this is the point where it explains why it's taken longer to agree a deal. You can physically not make a profit because you've invested in capital investment for the business which has its own profit so to speak in the future - but that investment going back into the business is technically a profit (at least in these circs).

Self Employed can also not make a profit in the sense of profit over cost and an extra slush at the end of the year, but the profit comes down to the physical wage taken for yourself.

From all the crap I've read tonight - it's a shame I didn't get my head around that 20 years ago lol I've never actually taken the piss in accounts (it wouldn't have mattered at my level of income), I just thought it was the done thing to claim what you could and call the rest wage/profit/loss.

This is why it needs simplification and if it's that complicated for someone who spends 12 hours a day mowing grass/talking bollocks as a business, no wonder multi million companies like Google spends tens of thousands on sharp accountants and lawyers who save them millions when you get into the long grass of 'what goes where' at the end of the year.
 

colavfc

Vital 1st Team Regular
If they need to use humans of Guinea pigs for coronavirus I wonder if there is a loophole in the law that we could use prisoners.
Anyone in prison for terrorism and are trying to prove they are reformed would surely jump at the chance?
 

danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
Not sure , but there will be a few who have "artificially surpressed" their profits who will be wishing they hadn't now.
Yep that was my point earlier and honestly - I don't have sympathy. Because after this, they won’t suddenly pay £5k more in tax post all this, it’ll be business as usual with the accounts.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
If they need to use humans of Guinea pigs for coronavirus I wonder if there is a loophole in the law that we could use prisoners.
Anyone in prison for terrorism and are trying to prove they are reformed would surely jump at the chance?
I take your point over all, but you did lose me when you suggested Guinea pigs had humans mate.

That's a part of evolution I'm not aware of.
 

danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
Was my guess, was just making clear I couldn't comment on how decent a deal that was as I hadn't looked into it. I'm still not entirely sure I understand the bit that applies to me lol

But just to placate Dan - I'm sure I'm going to pay for those acceptable deductions I didn't take as wage! PMSL
Sorry mate wasn’t a dig at all self employed people. My head goes straight to the trade workers who take the piss with cash payments, it’s not so bad if you get a good deal to pay cash so I’m partly a hypocrite 😉 and the smart contractors who go down all sorts of tax avoidance routes, although I’ve always been of the view HMRC needs to close them.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Yep that was my point earlier and honestly - I don't have sympathy. Because after this, they won’t suddenly pay £5k more in tax, it’ll be business as usual with the accounts.
And again my point - keep track of the sudden sick days that crop up when England play major tournaments, or there's a major (other) sporting event that's popular amongst the employed in this country.

It goes both ways and both take the piss - it's not one sided. Some employees feel entitled because they are taxed to buggery regardless...some self employed feel entitled because they have to work to buggery, take the risk, and have no safety net.

Both are wrong but so is the system.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Sorry mate wasn’t a dig at all self employed people. My head goes straight to the trade workers who take the piss with cash payments, it’s not so bad if you get a good deal to pay cash so I’m partly a hypocrite 😉 and the smart contractors who go down all sorts of tax avoidance routes, although I’ve always been of the view HMRC needs to close them.
Didn't take as a dig mate - I was taking the piss as I hope I've made clear with other posts agreeing you're right and wrong - but it applies to both sides who take the piss!

I have worked cash in hand on the side - I put it through my books as joint income or something or other (it was still me working) as I did a lad a favour (ran his own business completely unrelated to talking bollocks like I do), but it was never not going to go through the books. He told me I shouldn't - I disagreed.

It does go on, just as unjust sickies do - this is why I'm saying Sunak saying there has to be more of a marrying up of the applicable tax, I agree with. I don't see the need for tax avoidance - just pay it, if you have to pay more it means you earned more, so you still win!
 

danvilla2

Vital Football Legend
And again my point - keep track of the sudden sick days that crop up when England play major tournaments, or there's a major (other) sporting event that's popular amongst the employed in this country.

It goes both ways and both take the piss - it's not one sided. Some employees feel entitled because they are taxed to buggery regardless...some self employed feel entitled because they have to work to buggery, take the risk, and have no safety net.

Both are wrong but so is the system.
100%. I’m not going to say too much as who knows who’s reading but none of us are or will have family and friends whiter than white, I’d take the piss if I was self employed.

Sticking through a few receipts to the books that are personal, attending the odd rugby game paid by a supplier doesn’t hurt anyone although legally is not allowed.

Taking 75% of your income in tax and declaring a fraction of it, or sending your money to a far flung island to transfer it back is either legally or morally wrong, and if those people lose out now for the next two months then I guess those of us on PAYE have little sympathy.

It’s all choice, I could probably earn more money contracting but I don’t want the lack of job security, the constant chopping and changing of roles, the travel and losing other benefits.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
As per above posts mate, completely agree. The system is wrong for me and everyone has wriggle room but some wriggle room is more acceptable than others. Relative Gov's for years on end have looked at people taking the tenner rather than those (funnily enough their own expenses) taking far more etc.

The system is designed that the more you earn the more you can cheat - even if it's legal when it comes to off shore - taking your wage as a loan that gets written off etc.

All things being equal a fair system is:

You choose to let someone else take the risk and you take a wage and the benefits they offer - knowing they take the spoils and if lucky you get a bonus.
You choose to take the risk and you take all the spoils full stop.

Either way, tax should be the same based on the number relating to the profit.
 

Wurzel

Vital Football Legend
I'm self employed, I make very little from it, certainly not enough to live on. I do it because it fits in with my family life, and a lot of my customers are pensioners so I help them out with this tech stuff. I wont bother claiming anything it isn't worth it. I think when this is all done I may do something else, shame but more income would be nice.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
Why ? It's capped at £2500 a month anyway , and that is subject to tax and NI
Capped as a max, not a minimum mate. ie that's the most you can get and for some that'll be a significant drop.

I can only dream of earning £2500 a month, but my industry doesn't work that way when freelancing and I've done days at 18 hrs a piece, and still not come close. But if I'd have jigged my accounts differently (as per other posts about claimables and then wage) under this system I may get more (if I get anything at all).
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
I'm self employed, I make very little from it, certainly not enough to live on. I do it because it fits in with my family life, and a lot of my customers are pensioners so I help them out with this tech stuff. I wont bother claiming anything it isn't worth it. I think when this is all done I may do something else, shame but more income would be nice.
Lots don't but it's the lifestyle choice (not holidays) if I understand you right mate. You'd be safer being a greeter at your local B&Q from a financial point of view.

I get a sense of sarcasm (but I have been awake since 3am so forgive me if I've missed joke) but you live on it, if it suits you.
 

Wurzel

Vital Football Legend
No sarcasm Mike just that we arn't all on the fiddle, I dont believe in charging pensioners too much just because some spotty whiz kid in silicone valley has decided to change how Facebook looks without any consideration how it confuses those who are older (True story, had the phone call today from someone about this very issue. Obviously I wasn't going to see her with this covis -19 shit going on) My most vulnerable couple are both in their 90's and cannot leave their house, they have no family near, and every other week I get a call because they cannot access the on-line shopping because some **** in the bank or at the supermarket has decided to refresh their website. Last week I had to go and see them as they couldn't order food. I was very reluctant but what could I do they were stuck. Earliest delivery they could book was April 6th. It is a 30 mile round trip, I charged them £10.
 

mike_field

Vital Football Legend
No sarcasm Mike just that we arn't all on the fiddle, I dont believe in charging pensioners too much just because some spotty whiz kid in silicone valley has decided to change how Facebook looks without any consideration how it confuses those who are older (True story, had the phone call today from someone about this very issue. Obviously I wasn't going to see her with this covis -19 shit going on) My most vulnerable couple are both in their 90's and cannot leave their house, they have no family near, and every other week I get a call because they cannot access the on-line shopping because some **** in the bank or at the supermarket has decided to refresh their website. Last week I had to go and see them as they couldn't order food. I was very reluctant but what could I do they were stuck. Earliest delivery they could book was April 6th. It is a 30 mile round trip, I charged them £10.
I misunderstood matey - sorry. I thought it was a joke.

100% agree and I'm with you - I always knew you were a good lad, they are lucky to have you mate.

Money does a lot, but if you get a satisfaction from what you do - that's richer in my humble dude.