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Coronavirus vaccine

I’ve always been an advocate of tight fiscal policy and understand that governments cannot write blank cheques for public sector pay increases.

But I think that the government is making a huge political fuck-up with NHS pay rises at the moment. £200k for an extra 1% pay rise for nurses might sound a lot - but it pales in to insignificance when you consider the £32bn wasted on track and trace.

I work on some big projects for some huge companies but I couldn’t even fathom spending £32bn. How does a government even spend that much dosh on a track and trace system?
 
I’ve always been an advocate of tight fiscal policy and understand that governments cannot write blank cheques for public sector pay increases.

But I think that the government is making a huge political fuck-up with NHS pay rises at the moment. £200k for an extra 1% pay rise for nurses might sound a lot - but it pales in to insignificance when you consider the £32bn wasted on track and trace.

I work on some big projects for some huge companies but I couldn’t even fathom spending £32bn. How does a government even spend that much dosh on a track and trace system?

Yup totally agree. Also have been on or managed big tech projects and rollouts and you expect it to be in inflated in the millions but £32bn - theyre avin a larf.
 
I’ve always been an advocate of tight fiscal policy and understand that governments cannot write blank cheques for public sector pay increases.

But I think that the government is making a huge political fuck-up with NHS pay rises at the moment. £200k for an extra 1% pay rise for nurses might sound a lot - but it pales in to insignificance when you consider the £32bn wasted on track and trace.

I work on some big projects for some huge companies but I couldn’t even fathom spending £32bn. How does a government even spend that much dosh on a track and trace system?
I think ok, give them the 1% pay rise next year when the current 3 year pay deal runs out but immediately now give them a £1000 tax free bonus for their incredible efforts in the last 15 months.
 
I'm not getting a pay rise for the next couple of years, and no bonuses ether. So that money I'd gladly give to the NHS staff. I know a couple of nurses, and they have been run ragged since the beginning of last year. Some of these workers are going to drop if they don't get a boost soon. It will certainly help them sleep better at night!
 
I do love it when the public pick up the standard for a worthy cause.
Terror attacks? Police deserve a rise
Wars? Army deserve a rise
Grenfell? Fire fighters deserve a rise
Pandemic? NHS deserve a rise
You know what? These people never get their rise (Police had their first one in TEN YEARS last year and now back to a pay pause) and funnily enough, the public forget all about it.
Everyone is criticising the government for the 1% rise but guess what? Next year when it's all over and everyone is sitting on their sunbed in Spain, no one will give a f*** about NHS pay, same as all the others.
 
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Even with the idea of bonuses you get into difficulties as to who gets them. Do you give a bonus to everyone with a NHS ID for their work over the Covid period or just those who were on the front line dealing face to face with it? And if the later then would you include people of different departments who were drafted into the Covid department occasionally as support when numbers were down and if so do they get a full or pro-rata amount.
 
I do love it when the public pick up the standard for a worthy cause.
Terror attacks? Police deserve a rise
Wars? Army deserve a rise
Grenfell? Fire fighters deserve a rise
Pandemic? NHS deserve a rise
You know what? These people never get their rise (Police had their first one in TEN YEARS last year and now back to a pay pause) and funnily enough, the public forget all about it.
Everyone is criticising the government for the 1% rise but guess what? Next year when it's all over and everyone is sitting on their sunbed in Spain, no one will give a f*** about NHS pay, same as all the others.


A lot of truth in that Nobby but people who choose to work for the public sector instead of chancing their arm in a private sector must be aware of that when they join up.

The pension always used to be a good reason to be in the public sector but presumably that's not as good as it was.

What the public sector need is an honest political party. We are going to give all public sector workers and X% pay rise paid for by a X% tax increase.

Problem is most people would sooner give you a clap than vote that party in....or would they.
 
- the obsession by Cameron and in turn May to cut NHS spending .

When in the last 10 years was NHS spending "cut" ?
Seriously. Please tell us all in which years and what were the total NHS budgets/spend for each of the relevant years ?
 
A lot of truth in that Nobby but people who choose to work for the public sector instead of chancing their arm in a private sector must be aware of that when they join up.

The pension always used to be a good reason to be in the public sector but presumably that's not as good as it was.

What the public sector need is an honest political party. We are going to give all public sector workers and X% pay rise paid for by a X% tax increase.

Problem is most people would sooner give you a clap than vote that party in....or would they.
"A lot of truth in that Nobby but people who choose to work for the public sector instead of chancing their arm in a private sector must be aware of that when they join up"

Yes they are Mark but it's not the public sector workers that you hear moaning (well, ok. We moan a bit) but what I'm talking about is those who aren't in the public sector that get on their high horses about it when something happen that affect them but only at that time.
When Cameron froze our pay for eight years and got Tom Windsor to hack into our benefits and conditions, we ended up £400 pm worse off. The public went into outrage as it was about the time Nicolas Hughes and Fiona Bone were killed in Manchester.
Then Plebgate happened and two officers were found to have lied so all of us were c***s. No one has given a toss about Police pay since.
Calling for nurses to get a pay rise now when no one really cares is just as empty as clapping on a Thursday night but is being politicised to prove some people's own agendas.
 
"A lot of truth in that Nobby but people who choose to work for the public sector instead of chancing their arm in a private sector must be aware of that when they join up"

Yes they are Mark but it's not the public sector workers that you hear moaning (well, ok. We moan a bit) but what I'm talking about is those who aren't in the public sector that get on their high horses about it when something happen that affect them but only at that time.
When Cameron froze our pay for eight years and got Tom Windsor to hack into our benefits and conditions, we ended up £400 pm worse off. The public went into outrage as it was about the time Nicolas Hughes and Fiona Bone were killed in Manchester.
Then Plebgate happened and two officers were found to have lied so all of us were c***s. No one has given a toss about Police pay since.
Calling for nurses to get a pay rise now when no one really cares is just as empty as clapping on a Thursday night but is being politicised to prove some people's own agendas.

This is why many people found the clapping to be empty symbolism.

Public sector pay has been cut in real terms for years bu both partys and as you say its only when a terrorist event or health crisis comes along do people care.

20000 police and thousands of nurses cut, cuts in police stations and law courts, reduction hospitals and in training bursaries etc were well known but people still voted for those responsible.

When this is over we will still have a health crisis as the waiting lists have grown and we still have crime on our streets.

The media and politicians will keep quiet much as they have over the suspect contract cronyism.
 
Remember the NHS and care workers are above us in the queue for vaccines which is good. Doesn’t make up for the poor pay (especially care workers). I find this year is no different - a 1% pay rise is more than me and most others, with waves of redundancies ongoing everywhere else. But I don’t believe this is an issue as a result of this budget.

Any industrial action (there won’t be) must not happen in the next few months or the head of the unions will have blood on their hands.
 
Remember the NHS and care workers are above us in the queue for vaccines which is good. Doesn’t make up for the poor pay (especially care workers). I find this year is no different - a 1% pay rise is more than me and most others, with waves of redundancies ongoing everywhere else. But I don’t believe this is an issue as a result of this budget.

Any industrial action (there won’t be) must not happen in the next few months or the head of the unions will have blood on their hands.
Dead right, other than the fire fighters, all public service workers I know would never strike as they see their occupation as a calling (the police even actively voted against having the right to strike a few years ago).
Trouble is, governments over the years have played on this loyalty to shaft all of us. Let's not get sucked into thinking this is just a Tory flaw though, in our case, it was Jackie Smith who, as home secretary, first got stuck into Police pay under Gordon Brown.
As you rightly say, it's governments of all colours that, when costs need cutting, its front line wages that go first. (As in most businesses to be fair)
 
All Governments see their Public sector employee's as an easy target when it comes to pay negotiations - you often deal with real issues of "Life and Death" eg NHS, Armed Forces, Police, Social Workers etc. When it comes to it, are you really going to put your wellbeing above those you look after - No (generally due to the nature of the people who work in the public sector).

Therefore any Government can mug you off (a few platitudes of how your work is really appreciated, we cannot do without you etc). The general public will initially support your case, until a couple of people die - then you are all callous, self interested bastard who deserve to be hanged.

You are in a no win situation and will always set stuffed.

Sorry
 
All Governments see their Public sector employee's as an easy target when it comes to pay negotiations - you often deal with real issues of "Life and Death" eg NHS, Armed Forces, Police, Social Workers etc. When it comes to it, are you really going to put your wellbeing above those you look after - No (generally due to the nature of the people who work in the public sector).

Therefore any Government can mug you off (a few platitudes of how your work is really appreciated, we cannot do without you etc). The general public will initially support your case, until a couple of people die - then you are all callous, self interested bastard who deserve to be hanged.

You are in a no win situation and will always set stuffed.

Sorry
Lol, you work for London Underground. Do you think about the NHS staff and Police when you go on yet another strike?
 
All Governments see their Public sector employee's as an easy target when it comes to pay negotiations - you often deal with real issues of "Life and Death" eg NHS, Armed Forces, Police, Social Workers etc. When it comes to it, are you really going to put your wellbeing above those you look after - No (generally due to the nature of the people who work in the public sector).

Therefore any Government can mug you off (a few platitudes of how your work is really appreciated, we cannot do without you etc). The general public will initially support your case, until a couple of people die - then you are all callous, self interested bastard who deserve to be hanged.

You are in a no win situation and will always set stuffed.

Sorry
No need to apologise 😁 . As said above, most people take on their job with eyes wide open, I was a late joiner with many family members in "the job" so knew what to expect through advice and through what I had seen for myself.
Incidentally, I'm not sure 3x6's post holds water. You can't stop trying to better your pay and conditions just because someone else hasn't, just as I can't bemoan Rotherhithe going on strike just because I'm not allowed.
 
I'm reasonably sure that back in the 1970's, because the nurses weren't unionised the miners went on strike in their place. I think they might have done something similar in the 1980's until Thatcher made secondary action illegal.
The point being its not good for anyone if medical staff withdraw their labour.
Should the nurses go on strike, you can guarantee that despite putting their lives on the line every day during this covid outbreak, the tory press will be up in arms about how irresponsible and uncaring they are. Worse the British public will suck it up hook, line and sinker
 
Put my 8 year old boy to bed earlier and was being positive about school tomorrow. He said he doesn't want to go because of " the rules" I.E he can't play with his mates as they are in a different bubble to him. My 5 year old boy is getting emotional over anything as he's missed most of his first year of school, the year where social development is key. I'm hearing nothing but similar stories from parents of kids in a variety of age groups, mental health issues in teenagers is a huge concern. The fall out from this 'lockdown' will be massive.