Coronavirus vaccine

[goddington_gill]

According to https://vaccinetracker.ecdc.europa.eu/public/extensions/COVID-19/vaccine-tracker.html#uptake-tab

then the EU's vaccination rate is
View attachment 53566
Meanwhile in the UK (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations)

View attachment 53567
Unless you are adopting a Wayne-esque "52% isn't a majority" argument then statistically we are doing better than the EU**. Even allowing for a few percentage margin of error and minor timing issues the numbers aren't even close.

Only Portugal has figures close to ours:
View attachment 53568

While the next best performers:

View attachment 53569View attachment 53570View attachment 53571View attachment 53572
On the whole the smaller EU countries are still about 10% behind the UK while with exception of Italy all the other compariable sized nations (like Germany, France etc) are lagging further behind.
View attachment 53573

Even allowing for typical politicians spinning of facts, he is not exactly wrong according to the statistics.

I await your usual "Typical Brexiteer blaming the EU for turning the UK into a third world country" response.

** I generously use the EU rather than Europe as non-EU European countries like Albania, Belarus etc would make this percentage worse on casual glance of the figures.

as usual with statistics you have to be very careful how you use them. The UK statistics quoted exclude children under 12 whereas the EU statistics include them I believe. I haven't the energy to check the proportion of our population under 12! But i agree with the poster who highlighted the fact that we are looking at the wrong statistic anyway - surely hospitalisations and deaths are the important ones

 

[Gills 58]

I'm not auto-defending his behaviour. I might be a traditional Tory voter but it doesn't mean I support him without question. There is much about Boris that I have issues with with the most recent example being the way he handled the whole Owen Paterson thing.

You on the other hand have an auto-attack posture when it comes to Boris and have displayed before that you are very much blinkered and only see the negatives. On the one occassion you kinda admitted that Boris obviously has done good things then when pushed you couldn't name any time you agree with him. And I am disqualifying statements like "Boris has gone a good job of screwing the country with Brexit" which I feel wasn't a genuine feeling of a good job.

At the end of the day the way the UK has performed in terms of Covid, there are aspects we have outperformed other countries and some areas where we have underperformed. In terms of your comment of "Blatant attempt to make out others are doing worse than we " then I read that as you implying that Boris was pushing a message that was untrue? If so then this is blatantly incorrect. Statisitically other countries have done worse than the UK in some aspects and at the same time other countries have done better.

I admit that we have a far better record on deaths from Malaria than, say , India, so he's doing well on that score.
:-)

Btw, the only thing you seemed to quote was vaxx rates, which were marginally above average (note we had a head start on this). The buying of many vaccines in advance even I said at the time was good. So we are not worse than everyone else on every measure, of course. Looking at the the situation in the round, it is obvious to me (but not you and others perhaps) that Johnson's speech signalling a threat from Europe washing up on our shores was at least a case of "pot and kettle".

 

[Gills 58]

as usual with statistics you have to be very careful how you use them. The UK statistics quoted exclude children under 12 whereas the EU statistics include them I believe. I haven't the energy to check the proportion of our population under 12! But i agree with the poster who highlighted the fact that we are looking at the wrong statistic anyway - surely hospitalisations and deaths are the important ones

Thank you.

In fact, given we've vaxxed more, according to Baghdad, that makes our comparative death/hospitalised/cases rates even worse as we should clearly be doing better than other countries. This brings me back to the appalling example and poor messaging set by our PM.

 

[Archiepoptart]

Talking to a German mate, hes a bit worried about German vax rates . It seems Germany has a bit of a problem with so called 'alternative ' medicine being well entrenched in their healthcare system leading to a lower vaccine uptake.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

as usual with statistics you have to be very careful how you use them. The UK statistics quoted exclude children under 12 whereas the EU statistics include them I believe. I haven't the energy to check the proportion of our population under 12! But i agree with the poster who highlighted the fact that we are looking at the wrong statistic anyway - surely hospitalisations and deaths are the important ones

As per
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-young-kids-1.4723663
then I don't think the vaccine is approved for under 12s in the EU. I have no idea if the decision is universal across the EU.

As per
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/who-can-get-the-vaccine/
then 1st vaccines are being offer to 12 to 15 year olds.

In the UK, for each of the age groups from the age of 12 to 15, they each make up approx 1.2% of the population.

My disagreement with what Gills58 said is the suggestion that Boris was misleading in implying other countries are doing worse. When you compare the way countries have dealt with Covid over a range of areas then the UK is better in some aspects and worse it others. I don't agree Boris is essentially lying on the basis of a single aspect and it is important to compare the UK based upon aspects.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

Talking to a German mate, hes a bit worried about German vax rates . It seems Germany has a bit of a problem with so called 'alternative ' medicine being well entrenched in their healthcare system leading to a lower vaccine uptake.

He has no reason to worry. As Gills58 points out, even if he did get it then Germany has a better death per infection ratio so he'll probably be ok

@Gills58

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

Thank you.

In fact, given we've vaxxed more, according to Baghdad, that makes our comparative death/hospitalised/cases rates even worse as we should clearly be doing better than other countries. This brings me back to the appalling example and poor messaging set by our PM.

I consider vaccination success and failure to prevent deaths once infected to be not entirely mutually inclusive. Obviously the former will impact the number of people who may fall into the later category. If our vaccination ratio was worse and more people got infected then maybe the death / infection might have become worse. Maybe it wouldn't.

Whether or not it is better or worse to be in the UK or in an EU country of your choice comes down to which of the following do you feel safer protected against Covid in:

a) Lower risk of catching, but a slightly high risk of a negative outcome if hospitalised.
b) Slightly higher risk of catching but a slightly lower risk of a negative outcome if hospitalised.

The answer may depend on your age and general health and if you are the sort of person who regularly interacts with a large number of people or not.

 

[ThreeSixes]

According to the ons.gov.uk website, under 13s make up approx 1.2% of the population.
.

No that's going to be the proportion of the country that are aged 13 not under 13, surely?

 

[Jerryattrick]

Its all going fairly well if you consider that we are now taking a lets learn to live with covid (ala flu) approach.

as said above all that matters is death and hospital rates. As with flu the covid boosters are required for those at risk.

the science of everything else seems to be more opinion than fact.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

No that's going to be the proportion of the country that are aged 13 not under 13, surely?

Amended the post slightly. As per the links added to the post, vaccines are approved in the EU down to the age of 12. In the UK then 1st vaccines are being offered to 12-15 year olds. Allowing for 1.2% of the population for most of the teenage age groups then would counting the teenagers make up the 10-20% difference. Probably not.

But then again the original point was that we had a more successful vaccine programme compared with EU countries with little concern if it was a small margin of victory or a landslide.

 

[jogills]

Talking to a German mate, hes a bit worried about German vax rates . It seems Germany has a bit of a problem with so called 'alternative ' medicine being well entrenched in their healthcare system leading to a lower vaccine uptake.

Germans have a had a long attachment to what I would perjoratively call quack medecines. These sort of shared beliefs have deep roots and a long afterlief, irrational and hard to reconcile with much else. Our belief in the NHS has helped.

 

[valenciagill]

Dan Andrews , Wannabe Dictator of Victoria state
" Only a handful of people in Victoria are opposed to the measures"

Melbourne yesterday

 

[madrid_gill]

Dan Andrews , Wannabe Dictator of Victoria state
" Only a handful of people in Victoria are opposed to the measures"

Melbourne yesterday

View attachment 53594

He's obviously got very big hands!

 

[Nobby_66]

He's obviously got very big hands!

And millions of fingers.

 

[The Fear]

Good post by a great guy on MillwallOnline forum (used with permission obviously) Thought it was sharing on a few forums on Vital, just to help settle our obvious nerves a tiny bit! Nighmare innit!

We now have a 'Nu' variant. Pun intended. The MSM, of course, are enjoying the discovery immensely. There's no doubt that this new variant has a number of mutations to the spike protein that could enable it to escape vaccines.

However, we need to realise that this variant is not competing against vaccines - to survive and reproduce it must compete against other viruses. These mutations may give it an advantage over vaccines, but will they confer an advantage over other viruses? All these viruses are in continual battle for survival in a crowded antigenic space.

South Africa has had a relatively low number of cases for a while now. This might sound strange, but this provides an ideal breeding ground for new variants because they can find the space they need to infect people and reproduce.

Over here, we still have a very dominant Delta variant, which could prove to be 'fitter' than the Nu variant and squeeze it out. This is happened many times already to other variants of concern.

We also have very high levels of 'super immunity' in the UK. A little while ago I mentioned that getting vaccinated and then infected with COVID was the gold standard of immune protection. This is still the case. In addition, recent data suggests that the AZ vaccine provides better long-term protection through T cells than the Pfizer vaccine. The jury is still out on this idea, but it could explain a lot.

The Nu variant will only present a problem here if it can overcome the huge barrier provided by widespread vaccine and infection induced 'super immunity' in the UK and can compete successfully against our dominant Delta strain.

 

[timnolongerinbrisban]

Good post by a great guy on MillwallOnline forum (used with permission obviously) Thought it was sharing on a few forums on Vital, just to help settle our obvious nerves a tiny bit! Nighmare innit!

We now have a 'Nu' variant. Pun intended. The MSM, of course, are enjoying the discovery immensely. There's no doubt that this new variant has a number of mutations to the spike protein that could enable it to escape vaccines.

However, we need to realise that this variant is not competing against vaccines - to survive and reproduce it must compete against other viruses. These mutations may give it an advantage over vaccines, but will they confer an advantage over other viruses? All these viruses are in continual battle for survival in a crowded antigenic space.

South Africa has had a relatively low number of cases for a while now. This might sound strange, but this provides an ideal breeding ground for new variants because they can find the space they need to infect people and reproduce.

Over here, we still have a very dominant Delta variant, which could prove to be 'fitter' than the Nu variant and squeeze it out. This is happened many times already to other variants of concern.

We also have very high levels of 'super immunity' in the UK. A little while ago I mentioned that getting vaccinated and then infected with COVID was the gold standard of immune protection. This is still the case. In addition, recent data suggests that the AZ vaccine provides better long-term protection through T cells than the Pfizer vaccine. The jury is still out on this idea, but it could explain a lot.

The Nu variant will only present a problem here if it can overcome the huge barrier provided by widespread vaccine and infection induced 'super immunity' in the UK and can compete successfully against our dominant Delta strain.

Can't be from the Millwall Forum. There's no swearing or reference to fighting in 1981

 

[Jerryattrick]

Good post by a great guy on MillwallOnline forum (used with permission obviously) Thought it was sharing on a few forums on Vital, just to help settle our obvious nerves a tiny bit! Nighmare innit!

We now have a 'Nu' variant. Pun intended. The MSM, of course, are enjoying the discovery immensely. There's no doubt that this new variant has a number of mutations to the spike protein that could enable it to escape vaccines.

However, we need to realise that this variant is not competing against vaccines - to survive and reproduce it must compete against other viruses. These mutations may give it an advantage over vaccines, but will they confer an advantage over other viruses? All these viruses are in continual battle for survival in a crowded antigenic space.

South Africa has had a relatively low number of cases for a while now. This might sound strange, but this provides an ideal breeding ground for new variants because they can find the space they need to infect people and reproduce.

Over here, we still have a very dominant Delta variant, which could prove to be 'fitter' than the Nu variant and squeeze it out. This is happened many times already to other variants of concern.

We also have very high levels of 'super immunity' in the UK. A little while ago I mentioned that getting vaccinated and then infected with COVID was the gold standard of immune protection. This is still the case. In addition, recent data suggests that the AZ vaccine provides better long-term protection through T cells than the Pfizer vaccine. The jury is still out on this idea, but it could explain a lot.

The Nu variant will only present a problem here if it can overcome the huge barrier provided by widespread vaccine and infection induced 'super immunity' in the UK and can compete successfully against our dominant Delta strain.

cannot be correct about the AZ vaccine as it has been slagged off and sidelined by the US and pfizer machine. The uk has also chosen not to use it for boosters or injecting our children who dont even need it.

the poster raised very good issues and yes it is a gift to the msm.

 

[Tarian]

Good post by a great guy on MillwallOnline forum (used with permission obviously) Thought it was sharing on a few forums on Vital, just to help settle our obvious nerves a tiny bit! Nighmare innit!

We now have a 'Nu' variant. Pun intended. The MSM, of course, are enjoying the discovery immensely. There's no doubt that this new variant has a number of mutations to the spike protein that could enable it to escape vaccines.

However, we need to realise that this variant is not competing against vaccines - to survive and reproduce it must compete against other viruses. These mutations may give it an advantage over vaccines, but will they confer an advantage over other viruses? All these viruses are in continual battle for survival in a crowded antigenic space.

South Africa has had a relatively low number of cases for a while now. This might sound strange, but this provides an ideal breeding ground for new variants because they can find the space they need to infect people and reproduce.

Over here, we still have a very dominant Delta variant, which could prove to be 'fitter' than the Nu variant and squeeze it out. This is happened many times already to other variants of concern.

We also have very high levels of 'super immunity' in the UK. A little while ago I mentioned that getting vaccinated and then infected with COVID was the gold standard of immune protection. This is still the case. In addition, recent data suggests that the AZ vaccine provides better long-term protection through T cells than the Pfizer vaccine. The jury is still out on this idea, but it could explain a lot.

The Nu variant will only present a problem here if it can overcome the huge barrier provided by widespread vaccine and infection induced 'super immunity' in the UK and can compete successfully against our dominant Delta strain.

Sajid Javid, speaking in the HoC today, made several points, each very heavily emphasising "could"
(e.g. increased transmission, less affected by vaccines)...

...and our innumerate broadcaster classes ("I wasn't very good at Maths - but that's unimportant")...
...report these "coulds" as if a Covid resurgence is almost inevitable.

Have enough people wised up to the media's "could-mongering" ?

 

[ThreeSixes]

What virus?

 

[Archiepoptart]

Good post by a great guy on MillwallOnline forum (used with permission obviously) Thought it was sharing on a few forums on Vital, just to help settle our obvious nerves a tiny bit! Nighmare innit!

We now have a 'Nu' variant. Pun intended. The MSM, of course, are enjoying the discovery immensely. There's no doubt that this new variant has a number of mutations to the spike protein that could enable it to escape vaccines.

However, we need to realise that this variant is not competing against vaccines - to survive and reproduce it must compete against other viruses. These mutations may give it an advantage over vaccines, but will they confer an advantage over other viruses? All these viruses are in continual battle for survival in a crowded antigenic space.

South Africa has had a relatively low number of cases for a while now. This might sound strange, but this provides an ideal breeding ground for new variants because they can find the space they need to infect people and reproduce.

Over here, we still have a very dominant Delta variant, which could prove to be 'fitter' than the Nu variant and squeeze it out. This is happened many times already to other variants of concern.

We also have very high levels of 'super immunity' in the UK. A little while ago I mentioned that getting vaccinated and then infected with COVID was the gold standard of immune protection. This is still the case. In addition, recent data suggests that the AZ vaccine provides better long-term protection through T cells than the Pfizer vaccine. The jury is still out on this idea, but it could explain a lot.

The Nu variant will only present a problem here if it can overcome the huge barrier provided by widespread vaccine and infection induced 'super immunity' in the UK and can compete successfully against our dominant Delta strain.

Outstanding post succinctly put. Thanks Fear for passing that on, and if possible pass on my thanks to the original poster.