Co-Op Bank | Page 2 | Vital Football

Co-Op Bank

Bucksimp - 28/5/2015 23:34



From the Lincolnshire Echo , July 5, 2011:

Powell, who is the company secretary and is the Lincolnshire Co-operative's representative on the board [said]

"Lincolnshire Co-operative is a community organisation, owned by our 200,000 members, and we believe Lincoln City should be a community club representing the fans."

Sounds pretty cosy to me.

Not the same as 'The Co-operative Bank' I know, but part of the same movement surely, (Rochdale Pioneers and all that). Doesn't sit terribly well with the threat of execution of the club.

I did say 'Notwithstanding the period of notice given'.

We all know that in the context of football as a whole, including FIFA's ill-gotten billions, and the Co-operative Bank's own assets , the debt is a pretty trifling amount. A debt is a debt, but it does seem a bit vindictive to call it in at a time when the club is already on a life support machine.

I can't imagine 'The Bank of Dave' doing that to Burnley F.C.

By all means let's get shut of the debt, but there's the rub. When you're in the gutter without a pot to pi$$ in how do you get Wonga off your back?

Suggestions?

The quote from Jane Powell is totally irrelevant because, as you yourself acknowledge, Lincolnsire Co-operative is not at all the same as the Co-Op Bank. If that's the evidence you're producing to demonstrate the Co-Op Bank was "cosying up to the Club" your argument has no basis in fact whatsoever. The rest is simply hyperbole.
 
By goodness this is a weird stick to beat our club with. There are many reasons for people, often justifiably, to have a go at the current Board although (after over 60 years of supporting this club) I don't think they are outstandingly worse than any of their predecessors. The most significant Chairman we have had in my time and who held high office in the FA was probably John Reames. However I am doubtful that his Memorial Trophy contains an inscription recording that he was three times investigated, without charge, on suspicion of serious fraud (outside of our club but in his personal business dealings) by Lincolnshire Police.

The original Co-operative Bank "cosied up" to all sorts of people - for example offering accounts to certain sections of the community (hospices and the like) with no bank charges at all - and regularly advertised their wares through all the Co-op communities of Britain including Lincoln. Sort of spirit of the Rochdale Pioneers at least.

The Co-op "essence" of the bank has gone. It has been bought by American hedge fund investors who see the opportunity to make a very quick buck if they can turn it round so the nationality of the group is very important because Americans are now in contol not the original British. Very few Americans do anything for altruistic reasons or so has been my experience. What we do have in common - despite their enormous size - is that both share a nation of people who are exceptionally thick.

As in "Oh my God, is that Lincoln Cathedral?" Answer: No, you stupid cow it is a plastic replica."

The Co-op Bank now want to get shot of "small accounts" as a business policy change and that is why we are suffering.

I often agree with Mr Foley but some of what he has written is utter gonads. I suspect he knows as well as I do that stuff often has to be discussed BEFORE it is formally put in writing in business matters.

As he apparently has a claim to a connection with FIFA he might like to speculate on how much of all their dealings were put in writing.

Viewed from the sidelnes I would say that we are a fairly hapless club dealing with a fairly hapless bank and if it could be transformed to football it would be 0-0 after extra time and 0-0 after the penalties as well.
 
oldimpsfan - 29/5/2015 03:21

The Co-op "essence" of the bank has gone. It has been bought by American hedge fund investors who see the opportunity to make a very quick buck if they can turn it round so the nationality of the group is very important because Americans are now in contol not the original British. Very few Americans do anything for altruistic reasons or so has been my experience. What we do have in common - despite their enormous size - is that both share a nation of people who are exceptionally thick.

That is a thoroughly distasteful paragraph which merely draws attention to your own xenophobia. You have not explained why nationality is important to their investment strategy. Hedge funds are not the exclusive preserve of Americans.

 
oldimpsfan - 29/5/2015 03:21

Viewed from the sidelnes I would say that we are a fairly hapless club dealing with a fairly hapless bank and if it could be transformed to football it would be 0-0 after extra time and 0-0 after the penalties as well.

No it wouldn't, it would be 5-5 with each side scoring 5 own goals.

:he he:
 
oldimpsfan - 29/5/2015 03:21

Very few Americans do anything for altruistic reasons or so has been my experience.

Really?

https://www.cafonline.org/pdf/CAF_WGI2014_Report_1555AWEBFinal.pdf

 
Michael Foley - 28/5/2015 22:34

Bucksimp - 28/5/2015 21:46

If they went from cosying up to the club to suddenly threatening its very existence, then sure as hell they can be criticized. (Notwithstanding the period of notice given).

It's like the gap between the public image of Banks in the glossy ads and the grim reality of having your house re-possessed by them when it all goes wrong.

Even Wonga didn't do that

Moral of the tale:

1. If you can help it don't get in debt.
2. If you do, beware of man from Co-op bearing gifts.
3. Read the small print.
4. Don't default on payments
5. Be very afraid when the computer at the Co-op says no
6 Be prepared to lose your home (spiritual or otherwise)
7. Don't expect any sympathy or money from anyone, no surprise they're giving none away.

What is the evidence that they have ever been "cosying up to the Club"? As to "suddenly threatening its very existence" they informed the Board of the situation and what they expected / demanded well over a year ago. What there is evidence of is the Board of LCFC behaving in an ostrich-like fashion, in denial, and then letting its employees publicly insult the Co-Op Bank at every available opportunity. And then having the nerve to accuse the bank of aggressive attitudes and behaviour. Chickens coming home to roost.
Edited: as can't be arsed!
 
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong, I have never worked in banking.

Aren't the two elements of this problem - the mortgage and the overdraft - two entirely different things contractually?

Does the mortgage contract not contain specific clauses that would prevent the calling-in of the debt unless there were certain circumstances to trigger it? Have Lincoln missed payments then?
 
Scotimp - 29/5/2015 13:42

Can someone please correct me if I am wrong, I have never worked in banking.

Aren't the two elements of this problem - the mortgage and the overdraft - two entirely different things contractually?

Does the mortgage contract not contain specific clauses that would prevent the calling-in of the debt unless there were certain circumstances to trigger it? Have Lincoln missed payments then?

I mentioned the same from the start. Calling in a mortgage is in my opinion just not on, even at a years notice. What's next, them doing the same for residential mortgages?
 
Scotimp - 29/5/2015 13:42

Can someone please correct me if I am wrong, I have never worked in banking.

Aren't the two elements of this problem - the mortgage and the overdraft - two entirely different things contractually?

Does the mortgage contract not contain specific clauses that would prevent the calling-in of the debt unless there were certain circumstances to trigger it? Have Lincoln missed payments then?

The overdraft can be called in on demand and that is the largest constituent being approx. £K 300. The mortgage outstanding is £K 80. I think even mortgages can be called in even if you have met the payments but that is rare.
The bank are pushing for assets sales,most likely Playzone, which would lead to the mortgage being redeemed and a large chunk of the overdraft being paid off.
 
ImpAlaska - 28/5/2015 03:58

oldimpsfan - 29/5/2015 03:21

The Co-op "essence" of the bank has gone. It has been bought by American hedge fund investors who see the opportunity to make a very quick buck if they can turn it round so the nationality of the group is very important because Americans are now in contol not the original British. Very few Americans do anything for altruistic reasons or so has been my experience. What we do have in common - despite their enormous size - is that both share a nation of people who are exceptionally thick.

Fully agree with that Oldimpsfan.
 
Does anyone know hoe much we pay off each month on the mortgage? I'm assuming that can be seen in the accounts i.e. the difference between one year and the year previous divided by 12 months?
 
Well they likely to be one season ticket down atleast. Just assumed would be open last day of early renewal. Some rude creature in high heels stood in the middle of the road tipped the scales mind.
 
According to this weeks Echo, we've never missed a payment on the mortgage and we haven't gone near our overdraft limit of £300k.
 
C Callan - 30/5/2015 10:21

Well they likely to be one season ticket down atleast. Just assumed would be open last day of early renewal. Some rude creature in high heels stood in the middle of the road tipped the scales mind.
Eh?

Last day of renewal was last weekend? Unless I'm missing what you're saying!
 
57harry - 29/5/2015 14:26

Scotimp - 29/5/2015 13:42

Can someone please correct me if I am wrong, I have never worked in banking.

Aren't the two elements of this problem - the mortgage and the overdraft - two entirely different things contractually?

Does the mortgage contract not contain specific clauses that would prevent the calling-in of the debt unless there were certain circumstances to trigger it? Have Lincoln missed payments then?

The overdraft can be called in on demand and that is the largest constituent being approx. £K 300. The mortgage outstanding is £K 80. I think even mortgages can be called in even if you have met the payments but that is rare.
The bank are pushing for assets sales,most likely Playzone, which would lead to the mortgage being redeemed and a large chunk of the overdraft being paid off.

It's true commercial mortgages can be called in even without payments being missed. The mortgage could contain covenants which may be measured via monthly management reports or via annual accounts - for example. Here's a bit about covenants http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_covenant
 
Actually when I worked at a Bank in that area many years ago we used to issue letters of waiver all the time for breach of covenants. I think if we didn't the borrower could claim that the covenant was null and void because it had been breached with no action taken. By issuing the letter we gave permission that the covenant could be breached on that occasion but remained in force. My memory on this is fading a bit though.
 
The club may well be a basket case financially but the fact remains that there has been a change of policy and the "new" Co-op Bank want to get out of small to medium business. They make money out of our overdraft and probably a lot more than if we were actually in credit but they no longer want this type of business. They are attempting to pull the plug on countless small-medium business, including a chain of West Country garages who have banked with the Co-op from virtually the day it started.
 
oldimpsfan - 31/5/2015 23:38

The club may well be a basket case financially but the fact remains that there has been a change of policy and the "new" Co-op Bank want to get out of small to medium business. They make money out of our overdraft and probably a lot more than if we were actually in credit but they no longer want this type of business. They are attempting to pull the plug on countless small-medium business, including a chain of West Country garages who have banked with the Co-op from virtually the day it started.

This seems a very short-sighted policy to me. But then we are talking about a bank...

They won't just lose businesses, but are also likely to lose alot of personal accounts because of their behaviour.