City Ground | Page 32 | Vital Football

City Ground

Strett said:
So you can tell the roof construction merely by looking up when in the ground.

The City Ground is quite cool for geeky Engineers like me, in the fact it has the three main roof construction types; the old skool (Peter Taylor) one which uses columns that are arguably the most secure method, but have the disadvantage of obstructing the view of anybody sitting behind them. Then you have the cantilever (Brian Clough and Bridgeford), which is given away by looking up and seeing huge supporting beams (trusses) projecting forward from the rear, these support the roof and have the distinct advantage of offering unobscured views, being aesthetically pleasing and offering architectural freedom to make them look impressive, the trusses can easily be erected to go round 90 degrees, for example.
Then we have the external support, which the TE is; whereby the roof is effectively attached to the red lattice structure at the front to hold it up. You will observe, if you again look up at the TE roof construction, there are no huge trusses from the back to support the roof. This was designed like this because of the load bear at the rear, to support trusses for a cantilever was not possible, due to the proximity to the river, it would also effectively stopped pedestrians from walking between Trent Bridge to Lady Bay Bridge along the south bank.

This is why I cannot see a way of blending the new Main Stand into the Trent End, as the dissimilar constructions would not permit it.
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Just as a point of clarification, the load of the roof structure is still taken on the protruding beams but the idea of the cantilever is that the roof is prevented from toppling forward by a large balancing weight ( mass filled concrete} on the bottom of the inverted L shape thus formed by the rear stanchions and the roof beams.
 
jbacsta said:
Just as a point of clarification, the load of the roof structure is still taken on the protruding beams but the idea of the cantilever is that the roof is prevented from toppling forward by a large balancing weight ( mass filled concrete} on the bottom of the inverted L shape thus formed by the rear stanchions and the roof beams.
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Correct. The beams that you see in the TE are there basically to prevent the roof from deflecting in the span between the two supports, those being the red lattice work and the rear concrete pads.

The size of these beams is determined by the roof construction (the lighter the better (and cheaper)).

When cantilever roofs are designed, the mass of the beams is by far the greater load on the rear, and as such the options for roofing are not as limited. The BC stand, much like many cantilever designs of the day (the one at Ellend road is a great one) were covered, but exposure of these beams became de rigueur, as you see with the Bridgeford one.

This has now moved on again, as a cantilever has limits to how far they can go: the further they protrude, the larger the beams, etc. So enter stage left is the 'Cable net/stay' design, which has been around since the 80s and is a similar engineering principle to a suspension bridge. You will see this at Spurs' new stadium and I think this was used to convert our London City stadium to West Ham's home.

Yes. I am boring.
 
Strett said:
Correct. The beams that you see in the TE are there basically to prevent the roof from deflecting in the span between the two supports, those being the red lattice work and the rear concrete pads.

The size of these beams is determined by the roof construction (the lighter the better (and cheaper)).

When cantilever roofs are designed, the mass of the beams is by far the greater load on the rear, and as such the options for roofing are not as limited. The BC stand, much like many cantilever designs of the day (the one at Ellend road is a great one) were covered, but exposure of these beams became de rigueur, as you see with the Bridgeford one.

This has now moved on again, as a cantilever has limits to how far they can go: the further they protrude, the larger the beams, etc. So enter stage left is the 'Cable net/stay' design, which has been around since the 80s and is a similar engineering principle to a suspension bridge. You will see this at Spurs' new stadium and I think this was used to convert our London City stadium to West Ham's home.

Yes. I am boring.
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Yes, here is the Olympic stadium roof conversion so it could cover the new seats added where the running track was (highlighted in my scribbly pen tool thingy)...

Capture.JPG
 
Strett said:
Correct. The beams that you see in the TE are there basically to prevent the roof from deflecting in the span between the two supports, those being the red lattice work and the rear concrete pads.

The size of these beams is determined by the roof construction (the lighter the better (and cheaper)).

When cantilever roofs are designed, the mass of the beams is by far the greater load on the rear, and as such the options for roofing are not as limited. The BC stand, much like many cantilever designs of the day (the one at Ellend road is a great one) were covered, but exposure of these beams became de rigueur, as you see with the Bridgeford one.

This has now moved on again, as a cantilever has limits to how far they can go: the further they protrude, the larger the beams, etc. So enter stage left is the 'Cable net/stay' design, which has been around since the 80s and is a similar engineering principle to a suspension bridge. You will see this at Spurs' new stadium and I think this was used to convert our London City stadium to West Ham's home.

Yes. I am boring.
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Not boring at all. The forum needs informing on stadium design.
 
All speculation i know but if we make this revised planning application by the end of this month ( as was stated by the club) i wonder if RBC would give a decision in time for enabling works to commence immediately following the last home game, which i believe is May 8th? For what it is worth i have heard that the asbestos removal contractor is just waiting to be given the nod. All this assumes of course that we as fans are not just being led up the garden path by the club.
 
jbacsta said:
Thats right but 3 £5million players can be bought according to you out of the difference between our income and the other two. Thats bollocks isnt it.
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So you do think the accounts were fraudulently submitted? Do you have any proof? What makes you convinced we are engaged in criminal activity?

Actually yes, it does mean that. I thought you had run a business? You don't just purchase purely from profit lol Turnover also allows you freedom, nor do you pay everything up front.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
So you do think the accounts were fraudulently submitted? Do you have any proof? What makes you convinced we are engaged in criminal activity?

Actually yes, it does mean that. I thought you had run a business? You don't just purchase purely from profit lol Turnover also allows you freedom, nor do you pay everything up front.
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Keep trying.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Make your mind up, are the accounts submitted to CH fraudulent or not?
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I never even remotely suggested fraudulent accounts. I said i didnt believe the figures that you presented. I will just say though that the term " income from commercial activity" is a pretty broad term when it comes to a set of accounts.
 
jbacsta said:
All speculation i know but if we make this revised planning application by the end of this month ( as was stated by the club) i wonder if RBC would give a decision in time for enabling works to commence immediately following the last home game, which i believe is May 8th? For what it is worth i have heard that the asbestos removal contractor is just waiting to be given the nod. All this assumes of course that we as fans are not just being led up the garden path by the club.
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Why not begin April 1st? Wouldn't matter about starting now as there are no fans. Just erect some portable changing rooms and off we go
 
finbar70 said:
Why not begin April 1st? Wouldn't matter about starting now as there are no fans. Just erect some portable changing rooms and off we go
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April the !st ? To be fair thats not a date that i would be comfortable with if its connected with this project.
 
jbacsta said:
I never even remotely suggested fraudulent accounts. I said i didnt believe the figures that you presented. I will just say though that the term " income from commercial activity" is a pretty broad term when it comes to a set of accounts.
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It's basically anything that isn't tv or matchday related...
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Let's call it commercial revenue, so that includes retail.

Leeds earned roughly 24m from commercial revenue, they're a bigger club with a bigger stadium for sure but in the same time period we earned 6m. That's 400% more, or in other words 3 extra 5m players per season.

Derby a club we should be matching doubled ours. A 6m difference isn't chump change.

And that's from a really low base, English clubs for too long have readily relied upon matchday and TV. Take a club like Bayern, they earn more from commercial revenue than both matchday and TV put together - and that includes champions league.
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Leeds are a very good example of where we should be aiming, and there is no reason why we cannot emulate what they have achieved.

We might not quite get to that level, but we can go a hell of a long way towards that target.

Their impressive, non football related, revenue streams are the result of a well thought out strategy, which was devised around 20 years ago, and it all started with the new stand built on the site of the old Lowfield's road Stand.

After the Stand came the change in strategy from the then Owners, the Caspian Group; the Marketing Director was tasked with setting up five distinct divisions for Commercial revenues - Retail, Corporate, Advertising, Sponsorship and Services.

The new stand created vast opportunities for synergies to exist between the distinct revenue streams; the creation of more Corporate facilities in the Stand attracted local business to the Club in their droves.

Leeds then set up a Services Division which comprised of numerous small businesses - a Travel Agency, a Financial Agency and an IT Training to name but three; they then sold the Services to their Corporate Clients.

The attraction of sending their workforce to Elland Road for training proved to be a big money spinner, not to mention the profits from the individual Service providers.

One of the big objections to our new Stand is the location of the Ground; well, our Ground is situated in a far better place than Elland Road is - at least it is safe to walk round West Bridgford in the daylight hours which is more than can be said for Beeston and Holbeck in Leeds.

The new Stand and the improvements to the corporate facilities to the BC Stand give the Club the potential to double and treble Commercial revenues, and that would only be a start.
 
mao tse tung said:
Leeds are a very good example of where we should be aiming, and there is no reason why we cannot emulate what they have achieved.

We might not quite get to that level, but we can go a hell of a long way towards that target.

Their impressive, non football related, revenue streams are the result of a well thought out strategy, which was devised around 20 years ago, and it all started with the new stand built on the site of the old Lowfield's road Stand.

After the Stand came the change in strategy from the then Owners, the Caspian Group; the Marketing Director was tasked with setting up five distinct divisions for Commercial revenues - Retail, Corporate, Advertising, Sponsorship and Services.

The new stand created vast opportunities for synergies to exist between the distinct revenue streams; the creation of more Corporate facilities in the Stand attracted local business to the Club in their droves.

Leeds then set up a Services Division which comprised of numerous small businesses - a Travel Agency, a Financial Agency and an IT Training to name but three; they then sold the Services to their Corporate Clients.

The attraction of sending their workforce to Elland Road for training proved to be a big money spinner, not to mention the profits from the individual Service providers.

One of the big objections to our new Stand is the location of the Ground; well, our Ground is situated in a far better place than Elland Road is - at least it is safe to walk round West Bridgford in the daylight hours which is more than can be said for Beeston and Holbeck in Leeds.

The new Stand and the improvements to the corporate facilities to the BC Stand give the Club the potential to double and treble Commercial revenues, and that would only be a start.
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The Leeds part is very interesting but do you have a bit more meat on the bone for us? Is conferencing going to be viable now? What size? How close is a nice hotel? How else will we be able to use the facilities outside of matchday? Do we have similar plans to leverage our brand and create other services?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
The Leeds part is very interesting but do you have a bit more meat on the bone for us? Is conferencing going to be viable now? What size? How close is a nice hotel? How else will we be able to use the facilities outside of matchday? Do we have similar plans to leverage our brand and create other services?
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Possibly a bit much for mao to know but if he does, let us know!

But yes a leeds model is what is needed and has been for 20 years.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
The Leeds part is very interesting but do you have a bit more meat on the bone for us? Is conferencing going to be viable now? What size? How close is a nice hotel? How else will we be able to use the facilities outside of matchday? Do we have similar plans to leverage our brand and create other services?
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I can only go on the outline story as it was told to me.

They have plans in place to leverage every Pound they can out of the Ground, and they have the guy in place, David Cooke (Chief Commercial Officer), who has a very good track record in that area.

I would think, that even with the work from home culture growing as it is, that the need for conferencing and training will still be there.

Regarding Hotels in the vicinity; there are four times as many within a mile of our Ground than there are at Elland Road.
 
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