City Banned from CL | Page 3 | Vital Football

City Banned from CL

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Ioan X said:
The real issue is how many clubs have won silverware on the field by using properly and legally the money and the business and organisational skills of their owners and how many they had won silverware with an owner who has used his financial power in an inappropriate and illegal way?
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I don't think a breech of FFP is 'illegal' in the strictest sense of the word. They are probably unlawful in civil or commercial law. But it's a fair point. Bending the rules as opposed to breaking them.
 
stupops said:
I don't think a breech of FFP is 'illegal' in the strictest sense of the word. They are probably unlawful in civil or commercial law. But it's a fair point. Bending the rules as opposed to breaking them.
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Ιn any case, they are acts that carry a penalty.
 
I hope City wont get any PL punishment just to avoid Liverpool dominating the league for the next 5 years.

That thought mortifies me.
 
Pollo said:
I hope City wont get any PL punishment just to avoid Liverpool dominating the league for the next 5 years.

That thought mortifies me.
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I know.They will get us all banned from European football.... Again...
 
If we follow this logically the PL has to act (it won't of course) it has to strip them of their titles and it has to do the same with Leicester of it's title (who also cheated along the way)...

The sanctions are entirely appropriate and should not be watered down.

If you sign up to a competition, you accept the rules of that competition (even if they are stupid and ambition limiting).

But the PL will not act with the same ruthlessness, even though their FFP rules almost completely mirror UEFA's.
 
Spursex said:
If we follow this logically the PL has to act (it won't of course) it has to strip them of their titles and it has to do the same with Leicester of it's title (who also cheated along the way)...

The sanctions are entirely appropriate and should not be watered down.

If you sign up to a competition, you accept the rules of that competition (even if they are stupid and ambition limiting).

But the PL will not act with the same ruthlessness, even though their FFP rules almost completely mirror UEFA's.
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This one could really test the governance model between The FA and The Premier League. When Chelsea were hit with their transfer ban, from memory The FA also got a small monetary fine. Clearly, UEFA have now gone to a new level of punishment because last time CAS cut their ban in half and allowed Chelsea to trade in January.

Whilst I believe its a good thing that City test the legitimacy and legality of FFP to the limit, I also hope The FA exerts some governance over The Premier League. UEFA should deal with The FA who should be dealing with The Premier League.

I also hope we finish 4th so we don't have the do we / don't we spend conversation based on CL monies not being guaranteed until the CAS appeal is concluded.
 
stupops said:
I know.They will get us all banned from European football.... Again...
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Look, in their time Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, PSG. Juve, Inter, Milan and many others have all financially 'cheated' in some form or another in the past UEFA have been left to do little - a rap on the hand for some outrageous financial doping.

But they couldn't avoid this (which they were trying their best to do) when the emails make ManC's guilt so blatantly obvious to everybody and everyone.

If they banned PL clubs, they'd soon get legally ripped apart for all the nonsense in the past that they'd buried, hidden and run away from.

The 'old' guard clubs in Europa have a massive hold over UEFA - just look at the positions of power at all levels in UEFA and you'll see how deeply protected they have been and still are.

e.g. Italian football should have had a 10 year ban by now.
 
Spursex said:
Look, in their time Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, PSG. Juve, Inter, Milan and many others have all financially 'cheated' in some form or another in the past UEFA have been left to do little - a rap on the hand for some outrageous financial doping.

But they couldn't avoid this (which they were trying their best to do) when the emails make ManC's guilt so blatantly obvious to everybody and everyone.

If they banned PL clubs, they'd soon get legally ripped apart for all the nonsense in the past that they'd buried, hidden and run away from.

The 'old' guard clubs in Europa have a massive hold over UEFA - just look at the positions of power at all levels in UEFA and you'll see how deeply protected they have been and still are.

e.g. Italian football should have had a 10 year ban by now.
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I was actually referring to the scousers uncanny ability to get into trouble whenever they travel abroad. It's the law of averages. Sooner or later there will be another tragedy.
 
stupops said:
I was actually referring to the scousers uncanny ability to get into trouble whenever they travel abroad. It's the law of averages. Sooner or later there will be another tragedy.
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Ah!, I see.

well given the unprovoked attacks their fans have suffered in Europe, you may well be right, sooner or later they'll going to retaliate - perhaps even against the European police as well, who are an utter disgrace at these games.
 
Spursex said:
If we follow this logically the PL has to act (it won't of course) it has to strip them of their titles and it has to do the same with Leicester of it's title (who also cheated along the way)...

The sanctions are entirely appropriate and should not be watered down.

If you sign up to a competition, you accept the rules of that competition (even if they are stupid and ambition limiting).

But the PL will not act with the same ruthlessness, even though their FFP rules almost completely mirror UEFA's.
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Following this a bit further down the road

Could we sue?

Loss of earnings when we would have qualified for CL a couple of times we finished 5th
 
Kinygerbils said:
Following this a bit further down the road

Could we sue?

Loss of earnings when we would have qualified for CL a couple of times we finished 5th
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Just imagine; City would have to return all their PL win bonus's; players and managers at other clubs could claim they'd won the PL and their players could sue them for the bonus's they missed out on!?

It would be a court case to end all court cases.
 
Spursex said:
Just imagine; City would have to return all their PL win bonus's; players and managers at other clubs could claim they'd won the PL and their players could sue them for the bonus's they missed out on!?

It would be a court case to end all court cases.
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Makes the on going rugby case look like nothing.

I’m clearly not an expert, but it would seem to have some standing surely?
 
Kinygerbils said:
Makes the on going rugby case look like nothing.

I’m clearly not an expert, but it would seem to have some standing surely?
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Until the appeal is over it's almost impossible to see a clear way through this; but given that merit payments in the PL are for final placings as well as percentages of overseas rights etc there is a good argument for demanding repayment of this sums and a new distribution to other clubs - but of course it would only work if there was a clear retrospective 'fine' taken against City for the cheating/financial doping they've undertaken as they've accumulated honours through the years they done so.

I argued when they first one their first honours that their accounts stank and accused City then (the threads are in the off-topic area) that they were as far as I could tell have to be declaring certain income as something it wasn't or were leveraging their sovereign funds/influence for sponsors to sign deals that you'd never expect normally.

What cannot be allowed to happen is the PL to brush it all under the carpet when the appeal has been completed.

The PL must come up with it's own settlement and it's own punishment - perhaps even along the lines of the old West Ham v Sheffield (was it them) scandal for playing players who were owned/part owned by third parties?
 
Spursex said:
Until the appeal is over it's almost impossible to see a clear way through this; but given that merit payments in the PL are for final placings as well as percentages of overseas rights etc there is a good argument for demanding repayment of this sums and a new distribution to other clubs - but of course it would only work if there was a clear retrospective 'fine' taken against City for the cheating/financial doping they've undertaken as they've accumulated honours through the years they done so.

I argued when they first one their first honours that their accounts stank and accused City then (the threads are in the off-topic area) that they were as far as I could tell have to be declaring certain income as something it wasn't or were leveraging their sovereign funds/influence for sponsors to sign deals that you'd never expect normally.

What cannot be allowed to happen is the PL to brush it all under the carpet when the appeal has been completed.

The PL must come up with it's own settlement and it's own punishment - perhaps even along the lines of the old West Ham v Sheffield (was it them) scandal for playing players who were owned/part owned by third parties?
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The PL utterly bottled the West Ham case, they should have been relegated, from memory Sheff Utd when down by a single point? Which Tevez clearly contributed to getting.

They also washed their hands with Portsmouth and handing the issue to the FL

I don’t really have much faith that they will do anything
 
Kinygerbils said:
The PL utterly bottled the West Ham case, they should have been relegated, from memory Sheff Utd when down by a single point? Which Tevez clearly contributed to getting.

They also washed their hands with Portsmouth and handing the issue to the FL

I don’t really have much faith that they will do anything
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Nor do I, like you I think they'll completely bottle it, but the PL stance will be governed by what the FA do; the FA are our games 'integrity' Police and to some extent can force action, but have they got the guts to step into what could become a legal minefield and an area where the sanctions they could bring look at first glance as if they are wholly unprepared for?
 
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The only sanction should be a points deduction if found guilty. It would take years to settle a claim from multiple sources.The owners would move on before any judgement and appeal was heard.
 
UEFA and The FA should be in a connected governance model. In my opinion, UEFA should not be timing their punishments out of synch with anything The FA would implement here with The Premier League.

Additionally, the fine should be coming into our FA and then UEFA should be claiming their costs back for their investigation. The thought of UEFA making profit out of this annoys me.
 
muttley said:
UEFA and The FA should be in a connected governance model. In my opinion, UEFA should not be timing their punishments out of synch with anything The FA would implement here with The Premier League.

Additionally, the fine should be coming into our FA and then UEFA should be claiming their costs back for their investigation. The thought of UEFA making profit out of this annoys me.
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The Premier League rulebook allows for a points deduction, which can also be applied retrospectively!


Though not confirmed by the Premier League, the period under investigation would appear to be the same as which UEFA say City overstated their income - 2012 to 2016 – and although it is unclear whether it would cover City's 2012 Premier League title win, it raises the possibility that City could be stripped of the 2014 title.


Although there is no recent precedent for disgraced champions – such as Juventus, Fenerbahce and Marseille – being sued by vanquished rivals, in the Premier League there have been settlements between clubs that have fallen foul of miscreant rivals.


In 2009 Sheffield United and West Ham reached an out of court settlement said to be worth £20 million over the Carlos Tevez affair while more recently Liverpool paid £1 million to City after an alleged hacking incident.


It is nevertheless understood that there is no great appetite among Premier League clubs to see City stripped of their 2014 title, the season where Liverpool were runners-up
 
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