Chelsea FC vs Tottenham Hotspur | Page 21 | Vital Football

Chelsea FC vs Tottenham Hotspur

What will be the result?

  • Win

  • Lose

  • Draw


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I agree about there being major question marks about Ndombele's minerals today. He looked like a player that just didn't want to be there. I felt sorry for Dier and Dele who knows what this fixture means.

The biggest problem today though was the Toby / Jan / Davies combo. The 3 most pedestrian defenders in the league who I don't recall winning a loose ball all game. Those 3 experienced campaigners set the tone for the rest of the team.

Sick of Moura at this point as well. He's a Championship level player.

Poor tactics, defeatest tactics can make any team, any squad any player look just that, poor.

As soon as I saw how we were set up, I knew it was going to be a re-run of RB Leipzig, you can go on about individual players, how poor they were until the cows come home.

Our tactics were downright dreadful until (once again) the last 20-30 mins. Then and only then did we change our formation and our tactics before that Jose simply didn't have a clue in how to push back their pressing - he is actually utterly clueless, it was an abomination even of attack v defence principles - if I thought it too outlandish I'd swear he set us up to lose deliberately.

You can't excuse those tactics because in his view you don't have any 'strikers'.

I told this to 80 on the day; after the game, Frank came into the lounge to talk to the faithful chav fans - he was there for about 10 mins and one of the questions he was asked was 'did you expect Spurs to be so negative?', he answered 'yes it's exactly what we expected, we knew Jose would try and see the whole game out like that' - I asked, why did you? he answered 'because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer'.

I felt sick, but he was dead right.

Set up like that against a team that presses you non stop and you're as good as dead and praying for a miracle.

As I said before, the loss was inevitable, and so was the humiliating way we lost.

If he keeps doing this we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 10 - although I think the way he has us playing will make that beyond us.
 
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Should we win ? Are we entitled to or expected to. The odds are against us surely. A point would be a result and what's the best way of ensuring a draw ? .....a clean sheet. The best way if getting a clean sheet?
...dont play expansive, risky football. A bit like against Leipzig in the first half. Sure have a go when the opponent gets jaded, a bit like against Leipzig. If it weren't for Donkey Davies ?
I am not looking for flair football at the expense of being battered.

I posted this on Thursday !!
 
Poor tactics, defeatest tactics can make any team, any squad andy player look just that, poor.

As soon as I say how we were set up, you knew it was going to be a re-run of RB Leipzig, you can go on about individuals players how poor they were until the cows come home.

Our tactics were downright dreadful until (once again) the last 20-30 mins. Then and only then did we change our formation and our tactics before that Jose simply didn't have a clue in how to push back their pressing - he is actually utterly clueless, it was an abomination even of attack v defence principles - if I thought it too outlandish I'd swear he set us up to lose deliberately.

You can't excuse those tactics because in his view you don't have any 'strikers'.

I told this to 80 on the day; after the game, Frank came into the lounge to talk to the faithful chav fans - he was there for about 10 mins and one of the questions he was asked was 'did you expect Spurs to be so negative?', he answered 'yes it's exactly what we expected, we knew Jose would try and see the whole game out like that' - I asked, why did you? he answered 'because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer'.

I felt sick, but he was dead right.

Set up like that against a team that presses you non stop and you're as good as dead and praying for a miracle.

As I said before, the loss was inevitable, and so was the humiliating way we lost.

If he keeps doing this we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 10 - although I think they way he has us playing will make that beyond us.

As a player, I used to like Lamps. I remember staunchly defending him at Wembley when Gerrard was running round like the normal glory boy he is whilst Frank was putting in a massive shift for the team. I always admired him as a player because he was honest.

I'm starting to dislike him as a manager. He should watch the Wilder / Fury interviews. Two arrogant so and so's, but both know what to say after the last punch is thrown. It's a respect thing.

'Because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer' - isn't for public consumption. It's what you say in an inner circle in my opinion. It sounds like he needs to learn some humility.

You are right in that we've become very predictable in the way we address the games though. It won't be too long before teams start with one defender against us and put 3 more on at half time. I don't know if that changes if we only have the league to contend with or if he can get 5 or 6 of those guys 90 mins fit again.
 
Ha ha how right you are CS .SpursEagle has a lot to answer for . My fingers are a blur on the keyboard these days but I think it’s because my eyesight is failing , not because of my typing speed !
My dear old grandad used to say a lot ! But he always said how you live and learn every day !
Does that apply to football managers Walt?....just saying 🤥
 
Poor tactics, defeatest tactics can make any team, any squad andy player look just that, poor.

As soon as I say how we were set up, you knew it was going to be a re-run of RB Leipzig, you can go on about individuals players how poor they were until the cows come home.

Our tactics were downright dreadful until (once again) the last 20-30 mins. Then and only then did we change our formation and our tactics before that Jose simply didn't have a clue in how to push back their pressing - he is actually utterly clueless, it was an abomination even of attack v defence principles - if I thought it too outlandish I'd swear he set us up to lose deliberately.

You can't excuse those tactics because in his view you don't have any 'strikers'.

I told this to 80 on the day; after the game, Frank came into the lounge to talk to the faithful chav fans - he was there for about 10 mins and one of the questions he was asked was 'did you expect Spurs to be so negative?', he answered 'yes it's exactly what we expected, we knew Jose would try and see the whole game out like that' - I asked, why did you? he answered 'because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer'.

I felt sick, but he was dead right.

Set up like that against a team that presses you non stop and you're as good as dead and praying for a miracle.

As I said before, the loss was inevitable, and so was the humiliating way we lost.

If he keeps doing this we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 10 - although I think they way he has us playing will make that beyond us.

Ex...he has won pretty much everything there is to win...kind of hard to question his tactics....

We also were on a one way train to hell when he took over and we are now in the thick of a top 4 chase. (though I don't think we will land a CL spot... I don't think we have the squad to get it done)

I guess I am finding it hard to believe that folks are turning on him so quickly...many have not even given him a chance.

In my opinion...the fact that we are staying up...hell if we stay in the top half of the table!!!...deserves our thank you.

He took over VERY unstable squad full of overrated clowns.

I know I am part of the minority on this site that thinks so, but I am ok with Jose and want to give him a chance.
 
Ex...he has won pretty much everything there is to win...kind of hard to question his tactics....

We also were on a one way train to hell when he took over and we are now in the thick of a top 4 chase. (though I don't think we will land a CL spot... I don't think we have the squad to get it done)

I guess I am finding it hard to believe that folks are turning on him so quickly...many have not even given him a chance.

In my opinion...the fact that we are staying up...hell if we stay in the top half of the table!!!...deserves our thank you.

He took over VERY unstable squad full of overrated clowns.

I know I am part of the minority on this site that thinks so, but I am ok with Jose and want to give him a chance.

It doesn't matter what he's won, it's the here and now that matters; I can stomach losing, it's part and parcel of the game, but I know enough about coaching and tactics to know when you're beaten before you cross over that white line.

Forget who he is, forget what he's done and disassemble his tactics; we were up against a team who press and press and press, who kill the spaces - so you have to counter that; what you don't do is play off your 18 yards line or 6 yard lines - if you do you conceded all the spaces, you give them time to harry you non-stop and you're playing desperation hoof football up to two midgets.

Don't be fooled, I wanted Poch gone because they stopped playing for him and he was acting like an arse.

Do you actually think that there is a top coach in the land that would keep whining the way Jose is; his excuse for our tactics is pathetic utterly pathetic - and you can prove that to yourself simply by seeing what was possible both against RB and the Chav's when we started to play off the front foot.

His 'play no football, just get in the way approach' is sickening.
 
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As a player, I used to like Lamps. I remember staunchly defending him at Wembley when Gerrard was running round like the normal glory boy he is whilst Frank was putting in a massive shift for the team. I always admired him as a player because he was honest.

I'm starting to dislike him as a manager. He should watch the Wilder / Fury interviews. Two arrogant so and so's, but both know what to say after the last punch is thrown. It's a respect thing.

'Because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer' - isn't for public consumption. It's what you say in an inner circle in my opinion. It sounds like he needs to learn some humility.

You are right in that we've become very predictable in the way we address the games though. It won't be too long before teams start with one defender against us and put 3 more on at half time. I don't know if that changes if we only have the league to contend with or if he can get 5 or 6 of those guys 90 mins fit again.

Jose's message both directly and subliminally to our players is that we've surrendered already, that we have an insurmountable problem and so we'll just give in.

The players know they're being made to look weak, bad players because of the negativity and rigidity of Jose's tactical approach before we even get onto the pitch.

As I said, I hate losing, but have always accepted it if we've put up a fight and done our best, Jose is playing to protect his reputation now, not the clubs.
 
Ex...he has won pretty much everything there is to win...kind of hard to question his tactics....

We also were on a one way train to hell when he took over and we are now in the thick of a top 4 chase. (though I don't think we will land a CL spot... I don't think we have the squad to get it done)

I guess I am finding it hard to believe that folks are turning on him so quickly...many have not even given him a chance.

In my opinion...the fact that we are staying up...hell if we stay in the top half of the table!!!...deserves our thank you.

He took over VERY unstable squad full of overrated clowns.

I know I am part of the minority on this site that thinks so, but I am ok with Jose and want to give him a chance.

Judging his current performance as a manager based on his past successes is foolish though. Despite my dislikes for the bloke, I was willing to wait and see but he has proven pretty quickly that some things just never change. He has shown since the high press entered the game as a tactic that he doesnt know how to adapt his negative tactics to counter it. He is making the same mistakes he made at Man Utd.

This squad isnt full of overrated clowns. The talent in this squad is evident but the lack of confidence and direction is as clear as day. There are 2 or 3 players who I think are passed their best (Jan, Toby, Dier) but I look at Dele as the best example of a player who has struggled for the last 2 seasons to find any form thanks to confidence. The talent is there because we have seen it. He still shows glimpses of it. Same with Lucas, Sanchez, Ndombele, Winks etc.

Mourinho is unwilling to try anything different. The most success we have had in recent years is when youth has been given a chance to help us out of a tight spot. Mourinho started well by giving Tanganga a chance and I think he has consistently been the stand out player this season, despite only recently getting his chance. Why not test the water with the likes of Parrott, Richards or even Etete? Just 10-20 minute sub appearances at least?! Why isnt he using Sessegnon at all? He keeps banging on about how Lucas and Bergwijn are dead... that seems a problem of his own making to me.
 
Judging his current performance as a manager based on his past successes is foolish though. Despite my dislikes for the bloke, I was willing to wait and see but he has proven pretty quickly that some things just never change. He has shown since the high press entered the game as a tactic that he doesnt know how to adapt his negative tactics to counter it. He is making the same mistakes he made at Man Utd.

This squad isnt full of overrated clowns. The talent in this squad is evident but the lack of confidence and direction is as clear as day. There are 2 or 3 players who I think are passed their best (Jan, Toby, Dier) but I look at Dele as the best example of a player who has struggled for the last 2 seasons to find any form thanks to confidence. The talent is there because we have seen it. He still shows glimpses of it. Same with Lucas, Sanchez, Ndombele, Winks etc.

Mourinho is unwilling to try anything different. The most success we have had in recent years is when youth has been given a chance to help us out of a tight spot. Mourinho started well by giving Tanganga a chance and I think he has consistently been the stand out player this season, despite only recently getting his chance. Why not test the water with the likes of Parrott, Richards or even Etete? Just 10-20 minute sub appearances at least?! Why isnt he using Sessegnon at all? He keeps banging on about how Lucas and Bergwijn are dead... that seems a problem of his own making to me.

Sess is injured.
 
I re watched the first half last night with a different perspective. Despite the criticism of our tactics we created chances and came close , very close to scoring. The Sanchez header from the corner brought a very good save at full stretch from the keeper. Tanganga from an excellent long ball by Toby almost scored but for a slightly heavy touch which I dont blame him for. Moura had a decent attempt also well saved.

We were effectively playing with 10 men. Ndombele was obviously preserving what little energy he had by ambling about. When the ball came to him he did ok but it was mostly one touch passing , again with the minimum effort.
Once again re watching it although painful does help to evaluate in a more balanced way.
Having said this, I don't think Jose got the team selection right playing Ndombele instead of Skipp and not starting Dele being my main issues. Parrott I'm not sure about .
 
I have now re watched the second half. Chavs started very fast and the second goal gave them even more confidence while ours seemed to wane. Lamela lifted us but I think Alli should have come on at the same time to double the threat. Likewise Aurier for Toby. 2 goals down, take off a defender and bring on a winger needed to be done earlier. We may have lost bigger as a result but we needed to stop the chavs increasing the gap in points at least.
 
Pre Match - why Skipp came in.

Sess has had minutes - flattered to device - he will be the best summer signing though

Didnt notice that. My thought is more about squad management and giving either Berg or Lucas a rest when they need it. He's definitely paid for not having a preseason which is a shame but Mourinho would be wise to give him as many mins as possible when he is fit.
 
Poor tactics, defeatest tactics can make any team, any squad any player look just that, poor.

As soon as I say how we were set up, you knew it was going to be a re-run of RB Leipzig, you can go on about individual players, how poor they were until the cows come home.

Our tactics were downright dreadful until (once again) the last 20-30 mins. Then and only then did we change our formation and our tactics before that Jose simply didn't have a clue in how to push back their pressing - he is actually utterly clueless, it was an abomination even of attack v defence principles - if I thought it too outlandish I'd swear he set us up to lose deliberately.

You can't excuse those tactics because in his view you don't have any 'strikers'.

I told this to 80 on the day; after the game, Frank came into the lounge to talk to the faithful chav fans - he was there for about 10 mins and one of the questions he was asked was 'did you expect Spurs to be so negative?', he answered 'yes it's exactly what we expected, we knew Jose would try and see the whole game out like that' - I asked, why did you? he answered 'because that's what Jose does when he can't come up with a winning answer'.

I felt sick, but he was dead right.

Set up like that against a team that presses you non stop and you're as good as dead and praying for a miracle.

As I said before, the loss was inevitable, and so was the humiliating way we lost.

If he keeps doing this we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 10 - although I think the way he has us playing will make that beyond us.

Wow! If what you're saying holds any water, and I have no reason not to believe it to be true, then it's official. We have regressed under Jose. It was a bad move to appoint him. He is past his "best before date", and quite frankly speeding up the demise of OUR Club, which commenced under Poch.

Why are we, as a Club, making such poor decisions? The Eriksen and Danny Rose saga which has done medium term irreparable damage, . The Toby and Verts issues of contracts. The lack of appropriate positional cover (no strikers, no top 4 quality GK's), ineffective personal player counselling, and the big one....appointing a manager with questionable modern abilities. The appropriate candidate was critical to getting Spurs back on track.

Our football is horrible to watch. Devoid of any positive tactics. We need a Frank Lampard "type" who knows the English game inside out, one who can adapt, mentor, motivate and understand what is required at this level, where there are no easy games.

Jose is proving to be a spent force. He, himself is not only frustrated at the lack of support from above (financially), but also possibility with himself, as he comes to terms that the modern game has moved on beyond what he thought he was capable of managing.

What do we do now? As Ex says, I think it will only get worse as top 4 disappears into the distance and mid table seems the order of the day.
 
Coming up with a winning formula is not easy without a striker. Jose had a plan to weather it out then turn it on last 30 mins or so. We didnt weather it out and failed to score from 3 decent chances in the first half.

Like I said on Thursday ....should we be winning it ? With no strikers, injuries and tired players due to the schedule and unaclimatised new signings. I can understand resting Aurier ( who has been shite anyway ) and Dele. I could understand if he had rested Toby, Loco, Winks and Moura but obviously he couldn't.
 
It doesn't matter what he's won, it's the here and now that matters; I can stomach losing, it's part and parcel of the game, but I know enough about coaching and tactics to know when you're beaten before you cross over that white line.

Forget who he is, forget what he's done and disassemble his tactics; we were up against a team who press and press and press, who kill the spaces - so you have to counter that; what you don't do is play off your 18 yards line or 6 yard lines - if you do you conceded all the spaces, you give them time to harry you non-stop and you're playing desperation hoof football up to two midgets.

Don't be fooled, I wanted Poch gone because they stopped playing for him and he was acting like an arse.

Do you actually think that there is a top coach in the land that would keep whining the way Jose is; his excuse for our tactics is pathetic utterly pathetic - and you can prove that to yourself simply by seeing what was possible both against RB and the Chav's when we started to play off the front foot.

His 'play no football, just get in the way approach' is sickening.


I respect your stance bud and everyone else's on this site. Love you guys, really do!!

I will gladly buy the first round when I get over there when it is decided who comes out on top of this difference of opinion. (part of the fun right?)