Carragher's kid off to Everton? | Vital Football

Carragher's kid off to Everton?

C

C_Latic

Vital 1st Team Regular
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/07/everton-move-sign-james-carragher-son-jamie/

If this is true, then the fact that he's Jamie's lad has probably got him the move rather than his actual ability as when I watched the youth team vs United, he was one of the players who stood out the least although that was over a year ago so I assume he's improved. More worrying is that they seem certain that Joseph is leaving as well.

So that's two more youth players out the door (three if McGurk goes as well). I thought the cherry picking of our kids ended with new owners? When they bought the club they made it clear that the academy was the primary part of their strategy. I'd like to know their concrete plans on how they will be following that strategy through?
 
C_Latic said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/07/everton-move-sign-james-carragher-son-jamie/

If this is true, then the fact that he's Jamie's lad has probably got him the move rather than his actual ability as when I watched the youth team vs United, he was one of the players who stood out the least although that was over a year ago so I assume he's improved. More worrying is that they seem certain that Joseph is leaving as well.

So that's two more youth players out the door (three if McGurk goes as well). I thought the cherry picking of our kids ended with new owners? When they bought the club they made it clear that the academy was the primary part of their strategy. I'd like to know their concrete plans on how they will be following that strategy through?
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The 18-year-old centre-half is currently on a scholarship at Wigan where his contract expires at the end this season.
 
walgarthjohn said:
If they can just cherry pick them. It’s time for a rethink.
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Indeed. Their business plan has failed before it's even begun if players are just going to leave at the end of their scholarship or contracts and it looks very much like we're heading down this road. So what are these new overlords going to do to make the kids or their advisors believe they are better suited to staying here? Invest in new facilities to make up for losing Euxton would be a start.

Last year, we had a thriving setup with great facilities, great youth staff where it appeared that all our best youngsters saw their futures here before it was cruelly ripped apart. If we can't get back to that setup in the future, where do we go from here?
 
If they want to leave good luck to them,i only want to see players that want to play for us
 
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C_Latic said:
Indeed. Their business plan has failed before it's even begun if players are just going to leave at the end of their scholarship or contracts and it looks very much like we're heading down this road. So what are these new overlords going to do to make the kids or their advisors believe they are better suited to staying here? Invest in new facilities to make up for losing Euxton would be a start.

Last year, we had a thriving setup with great facilities, great youth staff where it appeared that all our best youngsters saw their futures here before it was cruelly ripped apart. If we can't get back to that setup in the future, where do we go from here?
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Overlords = Owners

Why would they share confidential business plans with us and every other football club?
 
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C_Latic said:
Indeed. Their business plan has failed before it's even begun if players are just going to leave at the end of their scholarship or contracts and it looks very much like we're heading down this road. So what are these new overlords going to do to make the kids or their advisors believe they are better suited to staying here? Invest in new facilities to make up for losing Euxton would be a start.

Last year, we had a thriving setup with great facilities, great youth staff where it appeared that all our best youngsters saw their futures here before it was cruelly ripped apart. If we can't get back to that setup in the future, where do we go from here?
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Well that didnt take long.
Bloody rubbish Wigan.
 
Find it hard to lay any blame at owners for this be honest. Clubs would of been tracking these lads for a while. Leeds tried for McGurk in summer on the cheap but would of known full well his contract was ending in 12 month. When their offers failed, why would you increase it at that point. Same thing is happening with Joseph unfortunately.

Like we all know, this summer gives us a big chance to tie players down so hopefully should clubs come calling again we can demand a proper fee.

The club still has Christopher Park and Stadium Way which is more than what a lot of other academies have anyway. Let the owners deal with the recruitment side of things over summer then they can look into the other areas to improve.
 
We haven't been able to tie players down to contracts properly due to not having owners for so long - can't blame new regime for the out of contract scenario they inherited.

When it comes to youth players rejecting pro contracts at their club after their scholarship ends in favour of big clubs cherry picking - that is a problem for everyone, not just us. You can't really do much about it if player won't sign other than negotiate the best possible deal. We will probably do the same to lower league clubs this summer when the young players developed by the likes of Crewe, Plymouth, Morecambe etc reject deals there to join teams like us.

But at least we will get compo for the players who leave. It will probably be a lot less than we'd like but at least it will help pay for the next crop of kids development.

We can look at this in a positive light to - in the previous 20+ years we literally only sold 2 players we developed for profit and only about 5 or 6 got anywhere near the first team. This past year we've sold 3 for profit, plus maybe 2 or 3 more this summer and we've had 4 or 5 do something worthwhile in the first team. So the youth system has clearly started producing which is something we desperately needed to start if we were to ever have a chance of being self sufficient. Also if our academy is working so well it will be easier to attract young talent when they see a genuine path to first team football and know our system is being watched by big clubs if they impress.
 
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The system is wrong where bigger clubs can just come along and cherry pick the best players for peanuts in compensation.
This will take time and effort to change, so in the meantime we have to hope our new owners come up with a plan that entices these youngsters to stay at Wigan Athletic. We lost far too many young talented players over the last 12 months or so, so hopefully that may change with the new regime in charge.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
We haven't been able to tie players down to contracts properly due to not having owners for so long - can't blame new regime for the out of contract scenario they inherited.

When it comes to youth players rejecting pro contracts at their club after their scholarship ends in favour of big clubs cherry picking - that is a problem for everyone, not just us. You can't really do much about it if player won't sign other than negotiate the best possible deal. We will probably do the same to lower league clubs this summer when the young players developed by the likes of Crewe, Plymouth, Morecambe etc reject deals there to join teams like us.

But at least we will get compo for the players who leave. It will probably be a lot less than we'd like but at least it will help pay for the next crop of kids development.

We can look at this in a positive light to - in the previous 20+ years we literally only sold 2 players we developed for profit and only about 5 or 6 got anywhere near the first team. This past year we've sold 3 for profit, plus maybe 2 or 3 more this summer and we've had 4 or 5 do something worthwhile in the first team. So the youth system has clearly started producing which is something we desperately needed to start if we were to ever have a chance of being self sufficient. Also if our academy is working so well it will be easier to attract young talent when they see a genuine path to first team football and know our system is being watched by big clubs if they impress.
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Is that how Robinson came to us from Wrexham?
 
Jonnysking said:
The system is wrong where bigger clubs can just come along and cherry pick the best players for peanuts in compensation.
This will take time and effort to change, so in the meantime we have to hope our new owners come up with a plan that entices these youngsters to stay at Wigan Athletic. We lost far too many young talented players over the last 12 months or so, so hopefully that may change with the new regime in charge.
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Would you still be saying this if it was us taking a player from other clubs academies.

Think back to our premiership years and think how many of the players gracing our academy today were brought in from other academies.

It works both ways sadly.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
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Would you still be saying this if it was us taking a player from other clubs academies.

Think back to our premiership years and think how many of the players gracing our academy today were brought in from other academies.

It works both ways sadly.
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Most of them were released from other more illustrious clubs and that is different.
I can't remember us pinching wonderkids for peanuts very often, but it must have happened I suppose.
The system is still wrong whichever way you look at it.
 
Jonnysking said:
Most of them were released from other more illustrious clubs and that is different.
I can't remember us pinching wonderkids for peanuts very often, but it must have happened I suppose.
The system is still wrong whichever way you look at it.
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Was Carragher even offered a pro deal? Last I heard he was bang average. Funny I saw facilities being developed at soccer dome recently and the amazing work that's been done. Staff have been looking after site for nowt during admin and have managed to keep it in decent shape. Lads who've developed talent previously are mainly still there and are really optimistic after meetings with new owners.
 
Ooohaaahdonniepage said:
Was Carragher even offered a pro deal? Last I heard he was bang average. Funny I saw facilities being developed at soccer dome recently and the amazing work that's been done. Staff have been looking after site for nowt during admin and have managed to keep it in decent shape. Lads who've developed talent previously are mainly still there and are really optimistic after meetings with new owners.
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I was under the impression he only just finished his scholarship and was in line for his first pro contract. I genuinely don't know if he's any good or not.

With regards to the scooping up of young players I think it's simple the FA should make it so the big clubs can only send out 6 players on loan per season and have a squad size cap on all age levels rather than unlimited. At the moment big clubs are incentivised to sign every half decent kid they can find, keep the best then send the rest all out on loan to raise their value and sell at a profit. I heard Chelsea have something mental like 35 kids out on loan at once. If you said a team like Chelsea can only have 25 kids registered at U23 level and the whole club can only send out 6 loans suddenly they can't sign everyone else's kids on top of their own and they can't horde talent at everyone else's expense.

Whole system doesn't protect small clubs or players from being exploited and could easily be fixed if the foxes weren't watching the hen house.
 
Ooohaaahdonniepage said:
Was Carragher even offered a pro deal? Last I heard he was bang average. Funny I saw facilities being developed at soccer dome recently and the amazing work that's been done. Staff have been looking after site for nowt during admin and have managed to keep it in decent shape. Lads who've developed talent previously are mainly still there and are really optimistic after meetings with new owners.
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Yeah, him, McGurk and a few others got offered pro deals. The fact that both are only on scholarships means that if they refuse to sign and go somewhere else we’ll get absolute peanuts in compensation. Literal pocket change which is why I started the thread. If this becomes a regular occurrence we’re in big trouble.
 
Jonnysking said:
The system is wrong where bigger clubs can just come along and cherry pick the best players for peanuts in compensation.
This will take time and effort to change, so in the meantime we have to hope our new owners come up with a plan that entices these youngsters to stay at Wigan Athletic. We lost far too many young talented players over the last 12 months or so, so hopefully that may change with the new regime in charge.
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Again this cherry picking is just another example of what is wrong with the game in general and what pissed me off with the holier than though attitude of the fans of many clubs when news of the ESL were announced. The Champions League and Premier League clubs are already acting exactly the same as the naughty 6. Stealing of youngsters by waving wads of cash in their faces needs to stop or a compensation system that is closer to the actual worth of a player if he should make it.
 
Between category 1 clubs compensation is around 40k per year that the player has been at the club. Its very hard to stop kids moving as long as the compensation fees are met. We could have offered likes of Carragher pro deals to sign on their 17th birthday like we did with Gelhardt. Problem clubs like us face is that from now on the big clubs can't sign the best talents from abroad till they are 18 years if age post brexit. Inevitably this will mean the best EFL clubs players being taken by the top Premier League clubs everywhere as there is obviously a finite talent pool to fish in. Any decent player from the EFL will be taken no doubt which means unless the compensation fee is made higher clubs like ours will constantly be pillaged.
 
jeffs right said:
Again this cherry picking is just another example of what is wrong with the game in general and what pissed me off with the holier than though attitude of the fans of many clubs when news of the ESL were announced. The Champions League and Premier League clubs are already acting exactly the same as the naughty 6. Stealing of youngsters by waving wads of cash in their faces needs to stop or a compensation system that is closer to the actual worth of a player if he should make it.
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Absolutely right Jeff.....PL are every bit as bad as the proposed ESL only relegation / promotion the odd difference. The PL shit themselves only cos it was less money in their pigs trough & possibly less money they could picket themselves....pot & bloody kettle springs to mind.
 
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