Cancer | Page 2 | Vital Football

Cancer

Yep, can't argue gator. The more we learn about medicine, the greater the number of treatments, yet the ability to apply them does not increase. Cost is an issue, as well as just the raw resources in terms of manpower needed.

In the end, I think the NHS will just become an emergency service, and we'll pay for everything else. It just can't cope with the rate of progress we are making.
 
HeathfieldRoad1874 - 5/12/2013 13:04

gator - 5/12/2013 12:47

GT think I would rather live a life full of toxins fanny and the Villa rather than a nomadic life and end up being eaten by a Tiger.
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That's what is so strange today. We all seem to think things like Cancer are more prevalent than ever, yet life expectancy is rising. The main reason more people now die of Cancer is because we don't die at 30 of Smallpox or Plague.

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That's what I think. It seems bad that more people die of the same things, but it is probably just that most things people used to die from can now be cured.

You have to wait for cancer or heart disease before you go.


 
Small pox and the Plague are just more diseases that came from interfering with the natural world. These diseases dont exist in "unconnected" tribes and we only know this from the interviews taken from the people that witnessed their own tribe before connection took place.
Gator you cant say you prefer life with all the toxins to that of a hunter gatherer because you havnt lived both lives yourself. Yet the people in the tribes that were not connected have - And they say that with the knowledge they now have of the outside world, that they wished they had never been contacted in the 1st place. Its brought nothing but misery upon their lives.
 
Ok GT yeah I haven't lived the life of a nomad or hunter gatherer as you say but having lived all my 50 years to date I think I can safely say I wouldn't swop.Now I would say the elders of the tribe wouldn't want to swop but I bet the younger ones once they have a taste of exhaust fumes,alcohol and kebabs once returned to the jungle they would soon be shouting I'm a Nomad get me out of here.
 
With younger people it is really tragic, and I know too many people it's taken. I will never shy away from checks or treatments when I'm told or if I'm unsure. A dodgy mole, a prolonged cough or lump in the marlie bag and I'd be straight down the quacks. As I would with my kids if I suspect anything there. Whilst I know people who it's taken, I also know of plenty of success stories where it's been caught early.

My grandad was told he had cancer (to do with spine problems he had) when he was 88. I seem to remember it being the result of treatment for something else, and treatment of something else caused another problem - it was a vicious cycle. In the end he just had pain relief. Basically his time was up and the list of problems was building up. I remember thinking it was quite flippant how they said he had cancer, but they wouldnt be treating it. He died peacefully though, in his sleep hopefully recalling the stories he used to share with me, of shooting down germans over Harbourne! God bless him.
 
gator - 5/12/2013 14:09

Ok GT yeah I haven't lived the life of a nomad or hunter gatherer as you say but having lived all my 50 years to date I think I can safely say I wouldn't swop.Now I would say the elders of the tribe wouldn't want to swop but I bet the younger ones once they have a taste of exhaust fumes,alcohol and kebabs once returned to the jungle they would soon be shouting I'm a Nomad get me out of here.
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50 years gator is by no means only achievable in a modern world..It was and is achieved in many remote areas and unconnected tribes. The oldest living woman a few years back, she lived in a remote area in the mountains of China, inaccessible by road...You have been brainwashed by modern society into thinking that the path we all walk now was the best path - but this may not be the case. Smallpox originated with agriculture as did many diseases. What other illnesses have come through unnatural living - Chemicals, non organic foodstuffs/materials, plastics, pollutants and poisons?

As for is the life is better - the same still applies for hunter gatherers as it does us today = you get up live your day and then go sleep - that is it..Do you seriously think we have cracked it by being tied into a system from the age of 4 years onwards by 1st going to a school, then going to work? Your just another brick in the wall!
 
Thing is GT with these tribes who have had no contact with the outside World they don't even know how old they are themselves they don't have calendars or birth certificates so nobody really knows what their life expectancy is.But to get back on topic I bet they suffer from cancer.
 
When we talk about life expectancy, we have to look at averages, not extreme cases. It's basic statistical analysis, taking out the errors from the sample.

If you seriously believe that the lifestyle of a hunter/gather is less stressful and gives greater longevity over modern living, then I suggest you go try it. The average life of these is between 30 and 40 years. Ours is 84.
 
Barney2004 - 5/12/2013 14:43

do they know what cancer is?
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Large tumours, maybe they could see them and know they weren't normal, but I doubt they would know they cause death, and other forms of cancer would be undetectable with their technology.

There is a far higher incident of death from heart disease, brought on by stress, and physical injuries. Also, starvation has an effect on the body that leads to health problems. All in all, whilst by their very nature evidence is lacking, these isolated societies may get cancer, but death is much more likely from other causes.

Effectively, whilst cancer does occur in younger people, statistical the vast number of cases are still in those over 50, and in hunter gatherer societies not many make it past this age.

Also, our sample group in the modern World is massive compared to archaeological data and small, isolated modern societies. It's just not good enough to make a meaningful comparison.
 
Its an interesting discussion because the main diet for hunter gatherers would be meat and leafy vegetables. Yet cancer cells thrive on processed food, sugary food, glucose, carbs etc..- many of which are again made by man using unnatural methods. Our bodies are made to eat meat, fish and fresh green leaves. - yet these foods are classed as low for developing cancer. This one man was given 3 months to live as his body was riddled with cancer, he had nothing to lose so he changed his diet to eating meat and leafy veg - he cut out all carbs, sugars, processed foods..He lived and still lives today as cancer cells without glucose will die.
 
"Excessive consumption of carbohydrates, especially refined carbohydrates like sugar or corn syrup, can lead to obesity, type II diabetes, and cancer."

Read more at http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-carbohydrates.php#iLJaEzHdH0UuvRkk.99
 
Again, GT, you're not understanding the statistical analysis. That says it can increase the risk, but t doesn't say it can't exist without.

No doubt, modern processed foods are less healthy than natural alternative, but the simple truth is it would be impossible to feed 7bn people naturally, and we are counteracting many of the negative effects with modern medicine and surgery.

Without the processed food many, many children would have starved before their 1st birthday. That's how nature controls population. Is that really what you are advocating? Mass starvation and suffering on a global scale?

The net effect is better for us, whatever you personally think. If it wasn't, the population would be limited to the resources available naturally, and quite clearly, it isn't.
 
Green Tea - 5/12/2013 15:25

"Excessive consumption of carbohydrates, especially refined carbohydrates like sugar or corn syrup, can lead to obesity, type II diabetes, and cancer."

Read more at http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-carbohydrates.php#iLJaEzHdH0UuvRkk.99
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Maybe we should all take Charles Darwin's lead and become coprophagist's he lived to a ripe old age after all.
 
If these hunter gatherer folk lived til they were about 60 surely they'd almost all get skin cancer.
 
"There is a growing awareness among evolutionary biologists that humans, like all species are genetically adapted to the environment of their ancestors. That is, that the environment conditioned their genetic make up. At the same time there is a growing awareness that the profound changes due to agriculture and animal husbandry occurred too recently for the human genome to adjust. As a result many of the so called human diseases have developed."

"Previous studies have examined the dietary characteristics of humans living during the stone age as well as historically studied hunter gather societies - and their authors have suggested that the nutritional qualities of these diets may have a therapeutic value in the treatment of chronic disease."

http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/The-Nutritional-Characteristics-of-a-Contemporary-Diet-Based-Upon-Paleolithic-Food-Groupsabstract4.pdf
 
Green Tea - 5/12/2013 17:11

"There is a growing awareness among evolutionary biologists that humans, like all species are genetically adapted to the environment of their ancestors. That is, that the environment conditioned their genetic make up. At the same time there is a growing awareness that the profound changes due to agriculture and animal husbandry occurred too recently for the human genome to adjust. As a result many of the so called human diseases have developed."

"Previous studies have examined the dietary characteristics of humans living during the stone age as well as historically studied hunter gather societies - and their authors have suggested that the nutritional qualities of these diets may have a therapeutic value in the treatment of chronic disease."

http://thepaleodiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/The-Nutritional-Characteristics-of-a-Contemporary-Diet-Based-Upon-Paleolithic-Food-Groupsabstract4.pdf
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Well, I suppose we should just be glad you've accepted that humans have been around for at least 2.6m years.
 
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