Bridging the gap between youth and first team..... | Vital Football

Bridging the gap between youth and first team.....

C

Cookiejar

Vital Reserves Team
Does anybody think this is proving more and more difficult for us to do.

Over the last few years we have had 3/4 very good year groups, we won the southern league last year, are currently top again, albeit very early in the season and the previously batch included Chapman, O'Mara, Oldaker, Stevenson and M'Bo.

How do we bridge this gap? I know a lot go on loan but is the lack of competitive reserve football to blame, playing just under 21 teams, people they have already played for a number of years doing them any favours???

This years squad has a lot of under 20's in it, how many realistically will command a place in the team or on the bench?
 
I`m a fan of Oldaker, Mbo and am very encouraged about Stevenson. IMHO, there seems little point in loaning these "borderline" players to teams playing two or three down from National League level. Any "borderline" players should be loaned at National League level.

I accept that we have to have some trust in our management, especially given that SL has proved that he knows what he`s doing. For some reason, the likes of Mbo, who is an athletic and strong lad, are not seen as justifying a run in the first eleven. My contention is that we will never know how well Mbo can play in L1 until such time as he is given a decent number of games, preferably consecutive, allowing him to settle in and present his footballing qualities. It`s a risk, I suppose, but I`d hate to see another Romeo leave us prematurely.

Having said all that I do trust in SL. He has brought in a couple of younger guys, in Hanlon and Charles-Cook, both of whom seem excellent acquisitions, and is giving them consecutive games to show their worth. Bottom line is, I suppose, that the whole issue of "bridging the gap" is far from easy and SL and, in particular, Marl Patterson have difficult jobs and will have trouble pleasing all the people all the time.
 
Yes I think it is quite hard to bridge that gap as any young player will need a few games to play at their best. I do think our 19 (in some cases nearly 20) year olds, should not go out on loan for more than a month at a time unless we've virtually decided that we won't be needing their services after this season. I wonder whether Hanlon and Charles-Cook got virtually forgotten by Charlton management and we should not fall into the same trap.

I do think that as we are strong in midfield, if one or two of our first teamers have a few poor games, Stevenson and Oldaker should be given 2 or three games to establish themselves.

Maybe a couple should come in for the first round of the FA cup as well as the Checkertrade. We don't want to get to the end of the season with 2 or 3 promising young players being let go. We should try and sort out new contracts for Stevenson and maybe one or two others, before Christmas.

SL was part of a very promising young Palace group when he was 18 of 19 so he should have the right experience to deal with the situation.
 
What about the Kent Cup? Do we play in that these days? Are there any other competitions we could enter and field a reserve/youth team?
 
In the last few seasons we've been either battling against relegation or finishing a bit above it. At such times, managers tend to favour established and experienced players and never risk chucking in a youth player of whom they don't know if they would sink or swim. If we have a couple of good seasons where we guarantee our safety with a number of matches to go then you might find players being chucked into more meaningless game.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
In the last few seasons we've been either battling against relegation or finishing a bit above it. At such times, managers tend to favour established and experienced players and never risk chucking in a youth player of whom they don't know if they would sink or swim. If we have a couple of good seasons where we guarantee our safety with a number of matches to go then you might find players being chucked into more meaningless game.
Click to expand...

And the good season we did have we were desperate for points all season trying to stay in the automatic spots and then the play offs.

I think sometimes the manager just has to take the plunge. All teams have bigger squads these days and there are probably fewer games where the result is guaranteed with 20-30 minutes remaining so young players will probably struggle for playing time.

Don’t EFL teams get a pay out for having a certain number of young players in their matchday squads? Think that’s new either this season or last season. Getting them on the pitch is of course another thing.
 
I think I read that Lovell wanted the youngsters to go on loan to a higher level but couldn't get guarantees that they would play regularly.

I don't think the gap between lower league one and upper national league is that high.

I certainly think the youngsters should be the focal of our Kent Senior cup team and gets as many into the FL trophy that we are allowed to.

They need the opportunity to play.
 
At the open meeting I asked a question about this and I found the answers convincing. Patto said that the reserve league/leagues do not provide regular games and he quoted a case where we had to complete 10 fixtures in April. He and Lovell said National League sides are unwilling to guarantee game time to young loanees and it's easy to understand why. They feel that regular arranged fixtures against a range of sides provide better and more regular experience.

I'm fairly long in the tooth and can remember many promising young players, who failed to make the grade. A very few mature late and small clubs cannot maintain large squads of players in the hope they develop. Most fail because they excel before others gain strength and fitness, they don't have the physical attributes, or don't settle to the life of a professional footballer. These are just a few of the reasons but in general I think we underestimate the dedication, hard work, physical demands and sheer competition involved in making the grade.

If even two of the current crop really succeed we will have done very well. I think we have a few, who may be capable and it will be fun seeing if they do. Tucker and Stevenson just now for me but we all see it differently and by Christmas others may be prominent. They are in good hands and will get every chance.
 
I think the current set up of youth /under 23 teams are not helping the youngsters throughout all the leagues.
1. I don't think they are taken seriously by fist team coaches managers.
2. The under 23 leagues are like watching bar football, there's no competition no jobs or positions are going to be lost if they win or lose a few games.
3. It would be better to play a mixture of first team players and youth and revert back to the reserve league structure that gave so many youngsters a chance. They could be seen playing against first team and internationals usually on the return from injury. I know the bench first teamers in the prem wouldn't want to be seen dead in an under 23 fixture and definitely wouldn't travel with a coach of youngsters.
4. Importantly, how serious is a promising youth player seen at his own club ? Are they just seen as up and coming youngsters who are not quite ready due to lack of experience. Hanlon and Cook were just seen as just that at Charlton and now look ?? how many other clubs have taken youths from other clubs and the players have done well but would never have got the chance at their own clubs.
5. Is there a Psychological issue by managers to dare to risk playing their own.
6. Do other managers see other things in a player due to the fact they aren't watching them in training day in day out.
7. So following on from that point could it not sometimes be a disadvantage for some players to be under the watchful eye of their own club managers /coaches ??
Bring back the old competitive reserve league fixture ??
 
Agree with jogills re the most promising youngsters. It does keep changing eg Stevenson is now closest to the first team. Tucker is a year younger but at around 6ft 5ins looks to be a real leader in the future. Both been with the club for many years. I think Stevenson has been with the club for 11 years !

I think it would be great if we were very much a mid table team this year. A few of the youngsters might get their chance and maybe surprise some people.
 
Nicky Butt (head of man u youth development) has said that the U23 football is not important as at 18 you have made it or need full time league football. They consider the U23 setup to be a continuation of youth football.
 
With regards managers not wanting to use youngsters either in a relegation battle or promotion charge. How often does it happen nowadays that a club is not involved in one or the other?

With 6 places at the top and 4 at the bottom, Mid-table safety just doesn’t seem to apply. Last season we started off very concerned about relegation. As soon as we won a few the top 6 became a possibility. Then after the Pompey game a few defeats saw us concerned about relegation again.

So I agree with nibbles, sometimes a manager just has to take the plunge.

I think by playing RCC and Hanlon, plus giving Stevenson (was it?) decent game time v Millwall, SL has shown he’s not afraid to give youth a chance.

Might find as the season progresses, some of our youngsters will be given more time coming off the bench when circumstances allow. And if they prove capable ( like in the game v Millwall) then they may find themselves starting games.

Here’s hoping. Here’s also hoping they or SL aren’t slated by the fans when it occasionally backfires.
 
Progress as apposed to a real break through has to be what we should look for .M'bo has to start hitting the target more often than Wilkinson List and Nash to be taken seriously. As for the midfielders and defensive players it is up to them to fight for that place on the bench that will always be available. When the opportunity arises they like Stevenson have to make a claim. While Lovell will keep a eye on the younger players. There can be no favourites. He simply has to pick the best side.There is no room for anything else.It would be great if we can produce a couple of players a season. That would be fantastic. But Lovell must win games that simply has to come first.As for the national league I have seen a few games .They are a real mix of styles of course but like league two there is a lot of brute strength used.
Agree with Jogills well written post.
 
Last edited:
So, the Gills play at (National League South) Concord Rangers tonight.

"This is one of several friendly games that will be organised by the management to ensure all squad players get regular minutes under their belt." Say the Gills, via Kentonline.

Hope Mbo plays and scores a hat-trick. Mind, the opposition should be supersonic on the wing.
 
It's worth noting that both Lovell and Patterson have had extensive experience of coaching at youth level. More pertinently they have been involved with some of the youngsters we are talking about for a number of years. It is unusual to have a first team management pair with that sort of experience. A lot of other managers have started with the first team and have little other focus. That explains why some of them almost never give a chance to their own young players and have little idea of how they think.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.