Brexit's a memory/nightmare, but look what we've won/lost ! | Page 3 | Vital Football

Brexit's a memory/nightmare, but look what we've won/lost !

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#41
I think with regard to the shellfish, there's no doubt the government's screwed up. Years ago, the EU voted to exclude 3rd part countries (outside the EU) from exporting to the EU (except within certain stipulations). Now, we're one of those 3rd party countries !

As for whether or not individual French petrol-station owners are choosing not to sell to British lorry drivers (not really sure what statement they'd be making here .... they'd simply be losing business), I suppose you can believe whatever you want to. However, it's hardly the same as the government screwing up on one of their talismanic industries, when justifying their rallying call to leave.
 

Tenfut

Vital Youth Team
#42
I don't doubt for a minute that the article you posted is true. But you slight the credibility of the Express yet I would suggest the BBC is hardly a paragon of virtue.
Never anything positive or even neutral about Brexit, always promoting negativity.
However it matters not one iota. The UK had a referendum, people voted, leave won, we left. End of. This motor does not have a reverse gear. Why those who chose to remain cannot accept the situation and get on with their lives instead of picking holes in everything is beyond me. Yes there will be problems, but problems create solutions and given time solutions will be found.

I posted an article from a Spanish newspaper that suggested The Netherlands and Spain would be the next two countries to leave the club. Should that happen the whole lot will fall like a deck of cards. I wouldn't mind a bet that in 50 years time the EEC will consist of France, Germany and possibly Belgium. Unfortunately as I won't be around to collect my winnings I won't place the bet.

To save you the bother of putting me in the vote leave camp I actually did a 'Moonay' and sat on the fence. I didn't vote. I just accepted the result and would have done the same whichever way it went. Perhaps others should do the same.
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#43
I don't think I did slight it's credibility. I said that the particular article appeared to be "opinion", rather than actual reported fact, supported by relevant details. I also said that it often makes references to the war ....... which it does.

The BBC is disliked by both the left and the right to an equal extent. Personally, I think this is a good thing, because it means that it's probably in the right place. Only those who don't want to hear anything that goes against their own view would assume there to be a one-way bias. By the way, if you think there's anything currently positive to be said about Brexit, feel free, and post away.

As for accepting the result of the referendum, I think most have done that ....... though it doesn't prohibit anyone from commenting on the mess that's being made, the promises being broken, or the chickens coming home to roost.

I have to say though, I am puzzled by the view that people should simply "accept the situation and get on with their lives". That isn't how elections work. Why should it be how referendums work?

If the government were making even a half decent job of leaving, then I'm sure that there'd be less criticism of their performance. However, given the lies (yep, lies) around the Irish border issue, customs paperwork, the fishing industry, movement around the EU (eg musicians), etc, it's hardly surprising that they're being held (quite reasonably) to account.
 

Tenfut

Vital Youth Team
#44
By the way, if you think there's anything currently positive to be said about Brexit, feel free, and post away
I won't find it on the BBC, thats for sure.

As for accepting the result of the referendum, I think most have done that
One or two on here still choking on sour grapes.

Genuine question

What problems do you see with having a blue / British passport?
Within 10 years everyone (who need to travel abroad) will have one.
As I said in an earlier exchange I never had problems with a previous one.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#45
First foray into off topic for about a week and I see the EU has begun to act shellfishly. I don’t really want to mussel in on this debate, claim a scallop and cause Moonay to clam up but i’ll add me two penneth nonetheless.

I’ll be honest and say I know little about the shellfish industry, nor do I like the stuff. Though from what I understand the EU have done a u-turn on previous reassurances about us being able to export unpurified molluscs to them, despite being no legal barrier to that on public health or animal welfare grounds Given the EU fish in UK waters for the same items it seems a bizarre stance, and hardly justifiable. I’m sure we could retaliate and perhaps we should. There’s already talk of ending the pragmatic approach to policing our waters. However when you have a French chair of the EUs parliamentary fisheries committee also saying it doesn’t make any sense perhaps we should take the moral high ground on this as maybe retaliation is what they want.
 

Nottingham

Vital Squad Member
#46
First foray into off topic for about a week and I see the EU has begun to act shellfishly. I don’t really want to mussel in on this debate, claim a scallop and cause Moonay to clam up but i’ll add me two penneth nonetheless.

I’ll be honest and say I know little about the shellfish industry, nor do I like the stuff. Though from what I understand the EU have done a u-turn on previous reassurances about us being able to export unpurified molluscs to them, despite being no legal barrier to that on public health or animal welfare grounds Given the EU fish in UK waters for the same items it seems a bizarre stance, and hardly justifiable. I’m sure we could retaliate and perhaps we should. There’s already talk of ending the pragmatic approach to policing our waters. However when you have a French chair of the EUs parliamentary fisheries committee also saying it doesn’t make any sense perhaps we should take the moral high ground on this as maybe retaliation is what they want.
Look, we are no longer in the SEM nor the CU. We no longer have the benefits of being members. We are now in competition with the EU. Idiots like Gove and Johnson took us, foolishly, out......now they complain ...selfish fools.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#47
Look, we are no longer in the SEM nor the CU. We no longer have the benefits of being members. We are now in competition with the EU. Idiots like Gove and Johnson took us, foolishly, out......now they complain ...selfish fools.
They’ve reneged on previous assurances and even their own chap doesn’t understand it. As you say we’re out, so perhaps it’s time we stopped affording them certain benefits they previously enjoyed before we left their cartel. They want shellfish we catch in our waters to be purified but think shellfish they catch in our waters is fine. Perhaps this pettiness needs to be reciprocated after all.
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#48
By the way, if you think there's anything currently positive to be said about Brexit, feel free, and post away
I won't find it on the BBC, thats for sure.

As for accepting the result of the referendum, I think most have done that
One or two on here still choking on sour grapes.

Genuine question

What problems do you see with having a blue / British passport?
Within 10 years everyone (who need to travel abroad) will have one.
As I said in an earlier exchange I never had problems with a previous one.
Isn't it strange that the view of many on the "Remain" side seems to be that BBC journalists like Marr and Kuenssberg give Johnson far too much leeway on Brexit (amongst other things). As I said Tenfut, I think the Beeb to be biased.

I suspect your point re the grapes was pointing more toward Notts (& probably Richymac) than me, but regardless, you're entitled to your view.

Blues passport problems? My kids no longer have the opportunity to work anywhere in Europe. In my old role, this would seriously affected me and those I worked with. We had people out on placement/secondment in Europe on a regular basis ....... with some who permanently moved too.

I also know a couple of people (musicians) who are worried about how it's going to affect them ........ especially given Johnson's outright lies that they wouldn't be affected.

For "normal recreational travel", I suppose that other than maybe having to get visas for some countries, it might not be too restrictive ........ maybe longer queues/checks.?
 
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moonay

Vital Football Legend
#49
First foray into off topic for about a week and I see the EU has begun to act shellfishly. I don’t really want to mussel in on this debate, claim a scallop and cause Moonay to clam up but i’ll add me two penneth nonetheless.
.
Is that not a touch disingenuous? The EU haven't reneged on anything. They're simply enforcing a law that we voted for and helped implement (as at the time, in the EU, it helped our fishermen).

I’ll be honest and say I know little about the shellfish industry, nor do I like the stuff. Though from what I understand the EU have done a u-turn on previous reassurances about us being able to export unpurified molluscs to them, despite being no legal barrier to that on public health or animal welfare grounds Given the EU fish in UK waters for the same items it seems a bizarre stance, and hardly justifiable. I’m sure we could retaliate and perhaps we should. There’s already talk of ending the pragmatic approach to policing our waters. However when you have a French chair of the EUs parliamentary fisheries committee also saying it doesn’t make any sense perhaps we should take the moral high ground on this as maybe retaliation is what they want.
The government somehow didn't cotton onto the pretty simple, blindingly obvious fact that outside the EU, we're a 3rd party country. Incompetence of the highest degree.

Quite astounding really. ......................... or maybe, it's not.
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#51
They’ve reneged on previous assurances and even their own chap doesn’t understand it. As you say we’re out, so perhaps it’s time we stopped affording them certain benefits they previously enjoyed before we left their cartel. They want shellfish we catch in our waters to be purified but think shellfish they catch in our waters is fine. Perhaps this pettiness needs to be reciprocated after all.
Erm ........

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...-right-about-shellfish-ban-leaked-email-shows
 

Nottingham

Vital Squad Member
#52
As an economist, can I recommend to Tenfut and any others who were hoodwinked by the ERG group in the Tory party, to read up on absolute and comparative advantage, as well as the model of perfect competition. Miw, you right-wing to revise the concept of cartels in the context of imperfect competition. You'll find that you'll understand the EU project more favourably, instead of allowing your anti German/France thinking to dominate your thoughts 😉
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#53
Notts .....can I suggest you proof read your posts before submitting ..... or even afterwards, then edit them.

"You right wing to revise"?

You're welcome.

;)

Edit - I wouldn't normally have picked someone up just on their grammar (apparently, that's not well liked on here !) but given the importance of the need to properly understand your reply, I think it's appropriate.

:sorry:
 

Tenfut

Vital Youth Team
#54
As an economist, can I recommend to Tenfut and any others who were hoodwinked by the ERG group in the Tory party, to read up on absolute and comparative advantage, as well as the model of perfect competition. Miw, you right-wing to revise the concept of cartels in the context of imperfect competition. You'll find that you'll understand the EU project more favourably, instead of allowing your anti German/France thinking to dominate your thoughts 😉
Hoodwinked, if you look at #42 you will see that I didn't vote for either side so how the f**k was I hoodwinked. I accepted the result and would have done whichever way it went. Pity you can't do the same because one thing for sure you won't change it. Less of the tarring everyone with the same brush as well. Xenophopic I most definitely am not.
 
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Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#56
As an economist, can I recommend to Tenfut and any others who were hoodwinked by the ERG group in the Tory party, to read up on absolute and comparative advantage, as well as the model of perfect competition. Miw, you right-wing to revise the concept of cartels in the context of imperfect competition. You'll find that you'll understand the EU project more favourably, instead of allowing your anti German/France thinking to dominate your thoughts 😉
‘you right-wing to revise...’ - no idea what you’re on about here. As for anti German thinking - I’m sure you’ll be enlightening us on what my thoughts are given I’ve no expressed no such thing. Seems like you’re reverting to type again unsurprisingly.
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#57
As I said, as per article they’ve reneged on assurances that from mid April it could carry on.
Nah, come on MiW. You can read, and nowhere in that article did you read that.

You might have read that DEFRA assumed the ban would only last till April ...... but they got it wrong. Later, toward the end, you'll have read that one of the Directors of a seafood Co in Cumbria says that it's always been EU policy. Part of being in the single market ...... a trading bloc, working together. Back then we didn't want 3rd parties encroaching on our trade .......... we're now a 3rd part country.

With a little bit of nous, and a whole lot of humility, this could probably have been sorted. After all, the EU probably still want our shellfish ......... purified or not. Instead, Eustice tried to ride roughshod. Arse.

Oh, and nowhere in that article did you read the word "assurances".

DEFRA cocked up........ simple really.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
#58
Nah, come on MiW. You can read, and nowhere in that article did you read that.

You might have read that DEFRA assumed the ban would only last till April ...... but they got it wrong. Later, toward the end, you'll have read that one of the Directors of a seafood Co in Cumbria says that it's always been EU policy. Part of being in the single market ...... a trading bloc, working together. Back then we didn't want 3rd parties encroaching on our trade .......... we're now a 3rd part country.

With a little bit of nous, and a whole lot of humility, this could probably have been sorted. After all, the EU probably still want our shellfish ......... purified or not. Instead, Eustice tried to ride roughshod. Arse.

Oh, and nowhere in that article did you read the word "assurances".

DEFRA cocked up........ simple really.
Didn’t realise I had to rely on one source. I have sourced alternate articles on the subject, as like to find balance 😉 Whether it was in that article I do not know as haven't re read it. Below however is a quote from George Eustice, who says the EU had ‘been clear’, or in other words provided assurances.

"It's quite unexpected and really indefensible that the European Commission made clear only last week that they were going to change their policy on this and, as things stand, put a ban on the trade altogether. Previously they'd been clear that this is trade that could continue, and all they needed to do was design the right export health certificate.
"The truth is there is no legal barrier to this trade continuing, both on animal health grounds and on public health grounds – there is legal provision within existing EU regulations to allow such trade to continue from the UK. We are just asking the EU to abide by their existing regulations”
 

moonay

Vital Football Legend
#59
Didn’t realise I had to rely on one source. I have sourced alternate articles on the subject, as like to find balance 😉 Whether it was in that article I do not know as haven't re read it. Below however is a quote from George Eustice, who says the EU had ‘been clear’, or in other words provided assurances.
Hold on a minute.

Initially, you didn't provide a link to an article.

You then referenced an article, .............. which I (reasonably) presumed had to be the one I'd provided.

If you're now referencing stuff from elsewhere, then fair enough I suppose........ but that's summat different.

Just cos Eustice says the EU had been clear doesn't remotely mean that he's telling the truth. I think a fair man would agree that the government has a track record (in a number of areas) of not always telling a truthful story.

So ........apology accepted ........even though you didn't offer one ......... I inferred it ..... in the same way as Eustice inferred the assurances from the EU.

;)
 

hindleymonwafc

Vital Football Hero
#60
Look, we are no longer in the SEM nor the CU. We no longer have the benefits of being members. We are now in competition with the EU. Idiots like Gove and Johnson took us, foolishly, out......now they complain ...selfish fools.
Is that an example of the respect you requested?... is it any wonder pricks like you are held in such low regard. Please vent your bile elsewhere.

Message to Tenfut...you are wasting your time with these Japanese in the Jungle types, unaware the war is over so leave them to it....it's so not worth it mate. Question also, are all passports now blue because I don't want to re-apply for my new one if there is any chance that a Burgundy bullshit EU one arrives ?