Brexit update... | Vital Football

Brexit update...

As I suggested some weeks ago, Theresa May has finally got total agreement on her Brexit plan. Everyone thinks it stinks...

What a mess. My idea is that David Cameron should be tied over a barrel and every man woman and child in the country permitted to give him one solid kick up the arse for starting us off on this enormous waste of everyone's time and money.
 
It's clear that May's plan has no chance of getting through Parliament and no time to renegotiate the deal. I think the only chance May has to survive, is if she calls a People's Vote, At the moment there are 3 possibilities, 1) May's plan 2) We leave without a deal 3) We remain. All three choices are put to the people and they are given first and second preferences. If no choice reaches 50% then second preferences of the people wanting the lowest choice is used. As long as no choice reaches 50% and her plan isn't the lowest, then the votes of the lower extreme will most likely go to the middle choice and she will then get her way, if it goes against her, it won't be her fault, as usual it will be the fault of the people not seeing the brilliance of her plan.
 
The only problem I have with the 'Peoples Vote' is that we already had one of those. The 'people' came up with the wrong answer, according to the elite and the establishment. Since the morning after, there has been a concentrated and totally un-democratic effort by the establishment to derail the process and deliver something that no-one in their right mind would support. It could all have been so different.
 
I don't think it was a case of coming up with the wrong answer, but there should always have been a second vote if the vote was to leave. Think of it like a normal Act of Parliament, first someone puts forward a motion, a general idea, if a majority thinks that it is a reasonable idea then it passes to the next stage, amendments are proposed and either accepted or rejected and finally a full act is produced and then Parliament votes on this, it maybe that someone who was very keen on the original idea but now changes their mind because they couldn't accept some of the amendments and now will vote against.

Parliament abdicated its responsibility by calling the first referendum, and therefore it is the people who should have the final say. If a majority now thinks that the proposed deal is worse than staying in and now decide to vote to remain, that is democracy. Just like if you voted Labour at the last election it doesn't mean that you can't vote for Conservative at the next.

My post was actually about how can Teresa May survive, if she puts her plan to Parliament everyone (except her) thinks it will get defeated. It's doubtful that she would get a majority from her own party. It is such a major bill that if she loses it should be a resigning matter. Her only hope is to get around it by removing the process from parliament.
 
To be fair Mansfield the vote was to leave or stay in the EU not to have a longer discussion and then vote on that again. That only raised its head when the establishment couldn't believe that they misjudged the whole issue and decided to try a 'best of 3' thing.

Mays deal is dead in the water. No-one will give her a majority. The tories are just waiting for the right time to boot her out. The problem they have is that if they get the 48 letters and force a vote of confidence...and she survives...she can't be the subject of another VoC for 12 months, and no one can face that. Thanks to the fixed term parliaments bill (cobbled together to save the LibDem coalition...), she doesn't even have the threat of calling a snap General Election. Of course we should all be concerned about the cowards and buffoons waiting to replace her. Makes me shudder...

I'm afraid giving us poor electors a second chance to vote on this horrible and expensive mess, and expecting the right answer this time is a bit of hope over experience.
 
I agree with most of what you say, but she can call a snap general election as she did last June! Although I think even she knows this to be a bad idea considering how it went. I also do not expect the people to vote "the correct way" if given a second chance, there is something about us that always votes for the opposite option that the establishment want us to vote for, Boaty Mcboatface, Jeremy Corbyn and Leave prove this. Then look at the MP's who have been elected, not only the general public voted for them but they must have been selected by the party themselves with many candidates all wanting the job, Take for example Nadine Dorries prominent Leave campaigner, who is against Mays plan because “This deal gives us no voice, no votes, no MEPs, no commissioner.”! what did she think leave means?
 
May needs a two third majority in the House of Commons to be able to call a general election. She can't just call Buckingham Palace and ask for an audience with the Queen like she could do prior to 2011. If I were Corbyn I'd be hoping she stays, just like Jos at the oinkers. Labour can't do more damage to the Tories than they are doing to themselves.
 
Mansfield Blade said:
I don't think it was a case of coming up with the wrong answer, but there should always have been a second vote if the vote was to leave. Think of it like a normal Act of Parliament, first someone puts forward a motion, a general idea, if a majority thinks that it is a reasonable idea then it passes to the next stage, amendments are proposed and either accepted or rejected and finally a full act is produced and then Parliament votes on this, it maybe that someone who was very keen on the original idea but now changes their mind because they couldn't accept some of the amendments and now will vote against.

Parliament abdicated its responsibility by calling the first referendum, and therefore it is the people who should have the final say. If a majority now thinks that the proposed deal is worse than staying in and now decide to vote to remain, that is democracy. Just like if you voted Labour at the last election it doesn't mean that you can't vote for Conservative at the next.

My post was actually about how can Teresa May survive, if she puts her plan to Parliament everyone (except her) thinks it will get defeated. It's doubtful that she would get a majority from her own party. It is such a major bill that if she loses it should be a resigning matter. Her only hope is to get around it by removing the process from parliament.
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You have only partly quoted the lat post saying ‘I think it came up with the wrong answer’ but goes on to add wrong answer for the establishment/elite. I think that this is true and shows how democracy is being subverted.
 
Mansfield Blade said:
It's clear that May's plan has no chance of getting through Parliament and no time to renegotiate the deal. I think the only chance May has to survive, is if she calls a People's Vote, At the moment there are 3 possibilities, 1) May's plan 2) We leave without a deal 3) We remain. All three choices are put to the people and they are given first and second preferences. If no choice reaches 50% then second preferences of the people wanting the lowest choice is used. As long as no choice reaches 50% and her plan isn't the lowest, then the votes of the lower extreme will most likely go to the middle choice and she will then get her way, if it goes against her, it won't be her fault, as usual it will be the fault of the people not seeing the brilliance of her plan.
Click to expand...

No it will be a two choice voting slip like last time.
 
FatherKnowsBest said:
May needs a two third majority in the House of Commons to be able to call a general election. She can't just call Buckingham Palace and ask for an audience with the Queen like she could do prior to 2011. If I were Corbyn I'd be hoping she stays, just like Jos at the oinkers. Labour can't do more damage to the Tories than they are doing to themselves.
Click to expand...

The DUP hold all the ace's now,after another evening/nite of slapping the Tories arse.
 
May is going for a chat in Bruxells today,she will probably be asking some slack to be cut regarding the Irish as its causing her Govt and her real problems,Bruxells might just say "tuff Theresa".

The French want accesss to our fishing grounds,this is going to be another big problem,tell em to hop off,after what happened this summer.
 
We have now got an agreement with the EU. Only problem is that no-one in the UK parliament wants to touch it with a barge pole. Leavers will rightly claim that its not what they voted for, and Remainers will hate it anyway. The democratic process is now a case of 'my way or the highway', and the whole future of the country is based on the Tory Whips strong arming it through, or sugar coating it with minor groups like the DUP. Time is now so short that there can't be any modifications to the deal. It's take it or leave without. Failure, could, just could lead to a second vote (which is what this is all about anyway...) and we end up staying in, after spending two years wasting our time and a vast amount of money.

What could we have done if we'd approached this whole thing on the front foot, rather than this apologist mess. Instead of clogging up Twitter with his carping and sniping criticism of the process, maybe that fat oaf Boris Johnson should have had the bollocks to stay around for more than 20 minutes after the result of the vote was announced. Twat.
 
38 minutes thats all the time it took for all the other 27 eu countries to sign the deal off yesterday.

That folks tells you all you need to know about who this deal favours the most.

Anyone who thinks its over,its only just begun we have the "trading relationship" to sort out next,this is where things will get tasty as all the other 27 will want their piece of the cake and "veto's" can be used.

Macron has said already he wants the French to have access to British waters for la cod...............one of the reason i voted to leave was to stop anyone fishing in my pond.
 
Brexit has today moved into a new phase of the end game, with queues of think tanks, public officals and the rest of the intelligencia all with carefully prepared stories about how dreadful Brexit will be with 'no deal', backed up by statistics they produced running through their varied economic models, (all built with the basic assumption that leaving the EU is an economic disaster...)

May knows the game is up, but she will keep trying to strong arm a yes vote through parliament, and hope public opinion and fear will force the MP's to give in and vote for this arseburger. Its a desperate strategy that reminds me of that school project I had weeks to do, but left and left it, until I realised it was due in the following morning. So I did a half arsed job on it and handed it in, hoping for the best. I got a 'D'...
 
Mrs Maynot has accepted an invitation from the Beeb for a Brexit debate,but Jeremy wants anutha channel,my ferkin good god somebody bang their twattin heads together and get this shit dun wi once and for all.I'm sick to the back teeth of hearin abart twattin Brexit.Thank goodness for our Chris and the boys,Roll on satdi.UTCB
 
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