Brexit rolls on... | Page 34 | Vital Football

Brexit rolls on...

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Pope John XXIII said:
I started typing out a reply, and then scrapped it because I really don't want to talk to you today. Keep lying, keep being disingenuous, keep avoiding any responsibility for anything you may have done. Have a ball
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So I haven't lied. You can't come up with anything. You don't agree with me , so all you can do is hurl insults. I haven't done anything. 17 million people voted for Brexit a clear majority of nearly a million people. You are supposed to be a grown up adult, so debate the facts. As soon as anyone disagrees with you , you throw your toys out the pram and lie about me. You brought my name into this, I hadn't even posted anything. You are the liar and bully. You obviously believe that people aren't entitled to vote in a democratic election.
 
Lienking said:
So I haven't lied. You can't come up with anything. You don't agree with me , so all you can do is hurl insults. I haven't done anything. 17 million people voted for Brexit a clear majority of nearly a million people. You are supposed to be a grown up adult, so debate the facts. As soon as anyone disagrees with you , you throw your toys out the pram and lie about me. You brought my name into this, I hadn't even posted anything. You are the liar and bully. You obviously believe that people aren't entitled to vote in a democratic election.
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Obviously
 
Well this is a spectacular use of £355m just when we could be spending it on better things.
The title is wrong, it won't help NI businesses avoid the red tape. The first two lines are more accurate:

"Up to £355 million of taxpayers' money will be spent to help companies in Northern Ireland deal with extra bureaucracy caused by Brexit.

Businesses in the region will receive the funding to help them cope with the additional paperwork associated with bringing in goods from Great Britain or the rest of the world."

https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/politics/brexit/355-million-public-money-northern-ireland-business-europe/

 
JC21 said:
You're always calling leavers racist. You accused me of repeating 'racist' things against Hamilton, by extension saying I'm racist.
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sometimes we generalise and stereotype, but thats cos the numbers say so.
its been said before, not all brexiteers are racists but all racists voted brexit. So youre arm in arm, natural for people to make assumptions based on things like the company you keep.
 
i am a tree said:
I disagree that it is a moral position.
Quality of life is a measurable set of variables that change over time in response circumstances and government policy.
I can see a possible moral argument as to whether we should be raising QoL for (for example) serving prisoners, but quality of life in itself is not moral.

For example, you can roughly equate low quality of life to poverty. Would you call poverty a moral position? You *could* say that deciding whether or not to help the poor is a moral position, but if you work on the basis that the government's job is to increase quality of life for the inhabitants of a country then the moral question around poverty becomes moot.
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Not really cos wot set of measurables should be measured to define quality of life?

You say it changes over time- that was my point about your point. The questions you ask are all subjective.

How does the govt go about increasing something that no one agrees on and can be measured a million different ways?

The difference between morals and politics is only slightly more than semantic imo or in other words there are no morals, just choices.
 
radfordinlondon said:
Not really cos wot set of measurables should be measured to define quality of life?

You say it changes over time- that was my point about your point. The questions you ask are all subjective.

How does the govt go about increasing something that no one agrees on and can be measured a million different ways?
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Just because there are multiple different models for measuring QoL, it doesn't make the measurement useless or subjective. All the different models are quantitative and factual. Running multiple models simultaneously allows you to come to robust, scientific conclusions.

Also, I wasn't saying the definition of QoL changes over time, I was saying that a population's measured QoL changes over time in response to policy and circumstance.

The difference between morals and politics is only slightly more than semantic imo or in other words there are no morals, just choices.
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There are massive differences between morals and politics. Moral judgements have little to do with whether or not something works or is effective. They simply say what an individual believes is morally right and wrong, nothing more.

I'll admit i may have overstated it, but moral judgements should be one part of decision making, and usually turn out to be counterproductive if overused.
 
paz1967 said:
Oh, apologies if I misconstrued it. Thought you were in favour of Brexit, which was/is a Tory thing.
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The Tories under Cameron spent millions on Remain leaflets. Basic Maths (as I've shown before) means that many more people who didn't vote Tory voted for Brexit than Tories who voted for it. Just that the Tories accept democracy, Corbyn and Starmer didn't.

65% of 11.3 million who voted Tory in 2015 = 7.35 million Tories
17.4 million voted leave = 10.05 million others
 
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Lienking said:
The Tories under Cameron spent millions on Remain leaflets. Basic Maths (as I've shown before) means that many more people who didn't vote Tory voted for Brexit than Tories who voted for it. Just that the Tories accept democracy, Corbyn and Starmer didn't.

65% of 11.3 million who voted Tory in 2015 = 7.35 million Tories
17.4 million voted leave = 10.05 million others
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That's not really true though.

I believe Corbyn, Starmer and most of the Labour party voted FOR triggering article 50. There is literally no argument you can make for any politician who voted to trigger article 50 not respecting the referendum. That was literally what it was about.

What the referendum was NOT about was the type of Brexit that should be pursued. Mrs May, in thrall to a narrow group of Tory MPs, decided to pursue an extremely hard brexit for her own political ends. The ERG deemed this to not be good enough and wanted no deal.

The "machinations" of the Labour party since then have been to prevent no deal. At no point has the Labour party every campaigned to cancel brexit unless the people wanted that.

There is no specific mandate for no deal. If you tell me it was the will of the people, you will be a liar. The Labour party had every business pursuing a brexit that would be the least damaging for the people they represent

It is a shame, because the country could have made a go of brexit. I personally would have respected the result if the conversation had been more inclusive around what Brexit looked like. My own personal red line was freedom of movement; I could have accepted any deal that included that.

But Mrs May from day one set out to completely exclude those who voted remain from the conversation, fostering a "winners Vs losers" mentality.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
My own personal red line was freedom of movement; I could have accepted any deal that included that.

But Mrs May from day one set out to completely exclude those who voted remain from the conversation, fostering a "winners Vs losers" mentality.
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Teresa May voted Remain and certainly didn't go for a hard Brexit. She attempted to negotiate BRINO.

As for freedom of movement, there are many complexities of Brexit, but stopping freedom of movement was clearly the main motive for voting Brexit. The EU have taken a wholesale take it or leave it approach, and now don't seem to understand that the government are happy to leave it. Brexiteers have now had to win THREE elections to get this far, 2016,2017 and 2019. There was a clear party who stood on a mandate to stop Brexit in 2019, along with the likes of Soubry, and they were nearly all wiped out at the election. In Broxtowe Soubry took 4.6 thousand votes , but the Tory vote went up, and Labour lost an almost identical number of votes.
 
JC21 said:
Be interesting to see if the 'non-nasty' party publish the full report

View attachment 41274
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The centrists

Will say fuck all about this as they did on on industrial scale bullying of Corbyn and his team

I fucking hate bullies

They are the scum of the earth

You would think real Labour people would be reviled by what has gone on for the last 4 years

But no they were the cheerleaders for it
 
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