Brexit rolls on... | Page 46 | Vital Football

Brexit rolls on...

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Pope John XXIII said:
That's lovely.

Degree apprenticeships are rare as hens teeth and ultra competitive to get on though. Would be great if the number were massively expanded; but it's not going to be
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Clarification needed, sorry. He did his upto HND, as that was the pathway. He then wanted to do the BEng top up, we agreed and we were allowed to claim the one year top-up as part of the apprenticeship levy.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
That's lovely.

Degree apprenticeships are rare as hens teeth and ultra competitive to get on though. Would be great if the number were massively expanded; but it's not going to be
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And this is the thing. There are certain degrees that are subsidised by companies just like there are certain apprenticeships but they are rare and most go into their degrees knowing that at the end of it there is no guarantee of a job. I did a business administration degree only to find out at the end of it that nobody was interested.
 
Basha73 said:
And this is the thing. There are certain degrees that are subsidised by companies just like there are certain apprenticeships but they are rare and most go into their degrees knowing that at the end of it there is no guarantee of a job. I did a business administration degree only to find out at the end of it that nobody was interested.
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There was a joke doing the rounds when I was there:
"What do you say to somebody with a sociology degree?"
"Big Mac and large fries please"
 
strettea red said:
Clarification needed, sorry. He did his upto HND, as that was the pathway. He then wanted to do the BEng top up, we agreed and we were allowed to claim the one year top-up as part of the apprenticeship levy.
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Good on you and your company. Massive respect to any company that is offering L4s and higher and are willing to push that further. There aren't enough of them for fantastic students out there desperate for those opportunities
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Good on you and your company. Massive respect to any company that is offering L4s and higher and are willing to push that further. There aren't enough of them for fantastic students out there desperate for those opportunities
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Allowing the Bachelors top-up is not an easy sell to be honest. We are fully aware that after graduation there is every chance that they will sell their degree to another company that will pay them more. The vast majority stay at HND level though.
Even if they do leave maybe 2-3 years after graduation, I see it as we have gained 6-7 years work, trained a good future engineer and increased our reputation among local higher education, that we are a good employer so get the better students sent our way.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Just seen it. Desperate attempt to avoid doing what Sturgeon has done while saving his job.

I don't know what difference it will make until I get to see what results look like tomorrow and how bad it is. Spent most of today trying to figure out the appeals process, which amounts to basically "you can't".

Need to see the detail. What mocks? We've done two sets; one was decent and one was shit (the most recent one). Which ones are we allowed to use and how are the exam boards even going to know? We don't keep the exam papers, students have them. No chance that exam boards have the capacity to actually scrutinise any paper based evidence that isn't just a grade on a spreadsheet

Could be carnage in the next few days.

But ultimately I'm not sure how much it will matter. Unis are going to be desperate for students and any that get foreign students will be throwing themselves at domestic students to fill places. I would be very disappointed if any unis were being arseholes for the exact offer grades in these circumstances.
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One headteacher in the north-east of England said 26 out of 39 students had their results downgraded compared with the school’s assessments, with one in five having each subject dropped by two or more grades. One able student hoping to go to Durham University had been downgraded in all three of his subjects, with one of his subjects downgraded by two grades.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
One headteacher in the north-east of England said 26 out of 39 students had their results downgraded compared with the school’s assessments, with one in five having each subject dropped by two or more grades. One able student hoping to go to Durham University had been downgraded in all three of his subjects, with one of his subjects downgraded by two grades.
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We can beat that. Awful awful awful
 
They stopped most apprentaships when i was a teen, it became yts and 25quid a week, pay most of that getting the bus every day, the rest for board. essentially working for nothing on a job i had no interest in, it just happened to be one of 4 opportunities in the whole town lol Got things like city n guilds doing things ive never done since.
Better alternatives for some were 25 quid on the dole and not work. i cant disagree with that but i was too proud to be 'sighning on' so i tried 50 jobs , often sales jobs, hated them all simply cos it would be hard selling and i was interested in providing a service
 
radfordinlondon said:
I wasnt including u specially cos we are all guilty to an extent, but if the cap fits...

The question i would ask okd is how and where in the world did these 20 something profligates learn such behaviour? Who allows and supports such poor decision making?

Wish i could write this upside down but answer is a. Old people b. Old people working for big companies

The current system of capitalism requires consumers and thus are consumers produced.

Im not a rabid anti capitalist but there is no doubt or lack of evidence that the current system, without change, is and will continue to take the planet further up shit creek.
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Interesting stuff radford and I'm still not too old to learn. First off though the cap don't fit and second is the fact that in a general sense these days each generation is better off than the previous one. It's obvious that my generation is older than yours and I'm prepared to bet that yours was a bit wealthier than mine. Also that peer pressure has always been important, perhaps more so now than it used to be as these kids earn more, over here anyway. A good example would be my eldest son who owns and operates a thriving plumbing business employing 14 people. He also has 2 sons and I remember the ruckus when he insisted that they complete an apprenticeship each, which they have now done, the eldest is an electrician and the youngest a builder. They will both end up with their own business and it's all due to listening to their father who'd been there and done that. Not every kid gets that sort of advice, I certainly didn't. And I dispute your comment on the effect that old people have on the current generation, you possibly haven't taken into account peer pressure which has a huge effect. You sound like a family man, may I ask how your experience with kids has gone?
I'm enjoying reading the variation in opinions on this subject and am always happy yo learn.

:thumbup:
 
Old Red Fart said:
Interesting stuff radford and I'm still not too old to learn. First off though the cap don't fit and second is the fact that in a general sense these days each generation is better off than the previous one. It's obvious that my generation is older than yours and I'm prepared to bet that yours was a bit wealthier than mine. Also that peer pressure has always been important, perhaps more so now than it used to be as these kids earn more, over here anyway. A good example would be my eldest son who owns and operates a thriving plumbing business employing 14 people. He also has 2 sons and I remember the ruckus when he insisted that they complete an apprenticeship each, which they have now done, the eldest is an electrician and the youngest a builder. They will both end up with their own business and it's all due to listening to their father who'd been there and done that. Not every kid gets that sort of advice, I certainly didn't. And I dispute your comment on the effect that old people have on the current generation, you possibly haven't taken into account peer pressure which has a huge effect. You sound like a family man, may I ask how your experience with kids has gone?
I'm enjoying reading the variation in opinions on this subject and am always happy yo learn.

:thumbup:
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Always difficult to compare generations ORF, particularly when mentioning wealth. It looks like generationally people are wealthier but a lot of that is because the value of money is always reducing. Similarly kids seem to have more stuff now but there’s more stuff to have and that stuff is proportionally cheaper.

You mention your son making his kids take an apprenticeship. I take it the ruckus was partially because they didn’t want to but what if they hadn’t wanted a trade? What if one of them had wanted to teach for example?

I only ask because I wanted a trade but my parents insisted I go to university and I was the first from either side of the family to do so. It didn’t really work though and as a result my dad helped my brother into a trade and then left my youngest brother and sister to find their way.

Apologies for rambling, I guess what I am trying to say is your grandsons were lucky in that the ‘pressure’ applied worked. It doesn’t always and there are no hard and fast rules the same as there are no universal constants when it comes to being ‘successful’. Sometimes hard work is enough and sometimes not. I doubt that will ever change.
 
paz1967 said:
They stopped most apprentaships when i was a teen, it became yts and 25quid a week, pay most of that getting the bus every day, the rest for board. essentially working for nothing on a job i had no interest in, it just happened to be one of 4 opportunities in the whole town lol Got things like city n guilds doing things ive never done since.
Better alternatives for some were 25 quid on the dole and not work. i cant disagree with that but i was too proud to be 'sighning on' so i tried 50 jobs , often sales jobs, hated them all simply cos it would be hard selling and i was interested in providing a service
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The YTS was a poor scheme.
The current apprentice program is very good.
All companies that have an annual pay bill of over £3m have to pay the apprenticeship levy, so it starts to make economic sense to set on apprentices.
Smaller companies, who do not pay the apprenticeship levy share the cost of training and assessing their apprentices with the government.
For new apprenticeships the company pay 5% towards the cost of apprenticeship training. The government will pay the rest.

I wish schools would push these more when discussing options for leaving students.
 
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strettea red said:
The YTS was a poor scheme.
The current apprentice program is very good.
All companies that have an annual pay bill of over £3m have to pay the apprenticeship levy, so it starts to make economic sense to set on apprentices.
Smaller companies, who do not pay the apprenticeship levy share the cost of training and assessing their apprentices with the government.
For new apprenticeships the company pay 5% towards the cost of apprenticeship training. The government will pay the rest.

I wish schools would push these more when discussing options for leaving students.
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Do schools actually know about them? If they don’t then the government really need to be doing more to make sure it is addressed. So many skills gaps that could be filled this way.
 
Basha73 said:
Always difficult to compare generations ORF, particularly when mentioning wealth. It looks like generationally people are wealthier but a lot of that is because the value of money is always reducing. Similarly kids seem to have more stuff now but there’s more stuff to have and that stuff is proportionally cheaper.

You mention your son making his kids take an apprenticeship. I take it the ruckus was partially because they didn’t want to but what if they hadn’t wanted a trade? What if one of them had wanted to teach for example?

I only ask because I wanted a trade but my parents insisted I go to university and I was the first from either side of the family to do so. It didn’t really work though and as a result my dad helped my brother into a trade and then left my youngest brother and sister to find their way.

Apologies for rambling, I guess what I am trying to say is your grandsons were lucky in that the ‘pressure’ applied worked. It doesn’t always and there are no hard and fast rules the same as there are no universal constants when it comes to being ‘successful’. Sometimes hard work is enough and sometimes not. I doubt that will ever change.
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Good post Bash, and I'll try to answer your queries first. The ruckus was certainly about taking an apprenticeship and of course peer pressure was involved. "Look dad, the kid next door is working for a concreter and earning X amount of dollars",that sort of opinion, and it got the kids nowhere, particularly as their dad had done his homework regarding his own future and made his mind up without any great advice from me although I was in the wings. I think that what possibly helped when raising our own kids was when they wanted a trail bike, car, or ballet dress the answer was usually "You work for half of it and we'll give you the balance". I'm also quite certain that had any of his kids wanted to do something like teaching or a job equally worthy he would have given them his full support. And that was an improvement on my own experience growing up, my folks never had enough spare cash to splash out, although we never went short of food or a roof over our head. Times were totally different. And I have to smile at your own experience with Uni, when I left school I'd qualified for Uni but didn't want to go. My folks couldn't afford to let me either, it suited at the time. None of our kids were interested in Uni and life has worked out for them regardless.
An apprenticeship has worked well for this son and he has made sure that he's passed the same chance on for his employees some of whom have worked for him for years.

I've enjoyed your rambling, if you think of anything else please ramble on.
 
Basha73 said:
Always difficult to compare generations ORF, particularly when mentioning wealth. It looks like generationally people are wealthier but a lot of that is because the value of money is always reducing. Similarly kids seem to have more stuff now but there’s more stuff to have and that stuff is proportionally cheaper.

You mention your son making his kids take an apprenticeship. I take it the ruckus was partially because they didn’t want to but what if they hadn’t wanted a trade? What if one of them had wanted to teach for example?

I only ask because I wanted a trade but my parents insisted I go to university and I was the first from either side of the family to do so. It didn’t really work though and as a result my dad helped my brother into a trade and then left my youngest brother and sister to find their way.

Apologies for rambling, I guess what I am trying to say is your grandsons were lucky in that the ‘pressure’ applied worked. It doesn’t always and there are no hard and fast rules the same as there are no universal constants when it comes to being ‘successful’. Sometimes hard work is enough and sometimes not. I doubt that will ever change.
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Yes Bash, but look at the levels of debt that there is; how many people are buying life's luxuries on borrowed money?

When you look at the levels of debt being reported it is frightening; and that is without including the debt which Students are saddled with after leaving University
 
mao tse tung said:
Yes Bash, but look at the levels of debt that there is; how many people are buying life's luxuries on borrowed money?

When you look at the levels of debt being reported it is frightening; and that is without including the debt which Students are saddled with after leaving University
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Interesting stuff please continue
 
That is absolutely frightening and you have to wonder how people manage to get out of the sort of holes being dug. I know about IVAs etc but they are useless unless people can learn how to adapt their lives.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...fears-threaten-starmers-hopes-of-labour-unity

Looks like playing games might come back and bite the labour centrists on the arse.
They didn't need to do the whole 'antisemitism' thing to Corbyn, he would have lost by now anyway probably.
But all of a sudden you have this atmosphere where social justice cred goes to whoever is accusing someone and whoever is at the top has to deal with it, and accusing your allies of racism is the easiest way to the top of the party.

This is far from over I suspect. BAME labour MPs who supported Corbyn have every right to demand that anti-black racism or islamophobia is fixed immediately as a matter of policy and that any institutional racism within Labour be dragged through the media in a humiliation exercise.
 
i am a tree said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...fears-threaten-starmers-hopes-of-labour-unity

Looks like playing games might come back and bite the labour centrists on the arse.
They didn't need to do the whole 'antisemitism' thing to Corbyn, he would have lost by now anyway probably.
But all of a sudden you have this atmosphere where social justice cred goes to whoever is accusing someone and whoever is at the top has to deal with it, and accusing your allies of racism is the easiest way to the top of the party.

This is far from over I suspect. BAME labour MPs who supported Corbyn have every right to demand that anti-black racism or islamophobia is fixed immediately as a matter of policy and that any institutional racism within Labour be dragged through the media in a humiliation exercise.
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Perhaps if both wings were interested in working towards a unified party that could actually win elections...
 
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