Brexit and all that shite ....

[Made in Wigan]

The thing is that one of the divorce parties is several times richer than the other.....let's not kid ourselves. The EEC (as was) rescued the UK from economic oblivion back in the 70's and 80's. Ours was a a marriage of necessity and convenience. What are the grounds for divorce now? Adultery? Unreasonable behaviour? Our head has been turned by the new girl/boy on the block,who actually does not exist!

You’ve just outlined why we left. The institution morphed into something we didn’t join. Unreasonable behaviour seems appropriate.

You’ve also outlined why there will be a trade deal. The EU cannot agree their budget going forward and the contributors are unwilling to put in more. Whilst it’s a bloc there are 27 separate nations. The biggest cannot afford a wto trade deal.

 

[Made in Wigan]

This government is now taking "disingenuous" to a completely new level.

In this interview, Villers is shit scared of going against what she's been told is "acceptable language" (in the leaked memo).

For the bet MiW, let's be clear ............... the "2019 deal" is completely irrelevant, as trade wasn't part of it.........................and we've already mentioned that an "Australian deal" is bollocks ....... it means no deal.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1233059690755641344

Sounds like your backtracking.

 

[moonay]

You said we’d be walking away without replacing what we used to have. WTO is a replacement, so your statement was incorrect.........

No ......if you read it properly, I said we weren't replacing what we used to have. I then conceded that it's a "replacement" ..... but one that's not as good. There's a difference. A big one.

Sounds like your backtracking.

How do you work that out? I'm just trying to be very clear, given Johnson's propensity for calling black, white.

To aid your recollection ................ post 5,809 ........
https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/brexit-and-all-that-shite.89982/page-291#post-2078813

 

[richymac]

You’re a left wing snowflake and like to hold others to a standard you don’t think applies to yourself. Is this sensible enough for you?

Great, name-calling. Willing to talk sensibly yet?
I hold the same standards to all and have personally not seen or heard anything unfair said against Priti Patel by anyone. The bar has been set when everyone mocked Miliband for his speech or Brown for his eye. It's a low bar, get over it.
I personally am not a member of any party. However my basic beliefs are, to; fight for equality and to lower the gap between the richest and we who will be working our whole lives. I want a government who will truly represent the needs of society. I believe a four day week and a guaranteed universal income for the poorest should be looked into but that's for another day.
Anyway could go on all day. But my advice for you is don't get riled up by something so insignificant. Not good for the soul.

 

[Made in Wigan]

No ......if you read it properly, I said we weren't replacing what we used to have. I then conceded that it's a "replacement" ..... but one that's not as good. There's a difference. A big one.

So you contradicted yourself then?! Wto terms isn’t walking away without a placement. It’s a choice. And a palatable one. The EU want us tied to other parts of their institution. If that is a red line for them and not acceptable to us then wto terms will be better than what they want.

How do you work that out? I'm just trying to be very clear, given Johnson's propensity for calling black, white.

You are now trying to re define what ‘no deal means’ by suggesting the Aussie deal is one. No deal means exactly that, leaving on wto terms. We won’t, but it seems he’s been successful in boiling some piss!

 

[Made in Wigan]

Great, name-calling. Willing to talk sensibly yet?
I hold the same standards to all and have personally not seen or heard anything unfair said against Priti Patel by anyone. The bar has been set when everyone mocked Miliband for his speech or Brown for his eye. It's a low bar, get over it.
I personally am not a member of any party. However my basic beliefs are, to; fight for equality and to lower the gap between the richest and we who will be working our whole lives. I want a government who will truly represent the needs of society. I believe a four day week and a guaranteed universal income for the poorest should be looked into but that's for another day.
Anyway could go on all day. But my advice for you is don't get riled up by something so insignificant. Not good for the soul.

Member or no member it’s clear how you vote. Why do think I’m riled? Corbyn lost. Big style. His dream, your dream, is in tatters. We have a no nonsense home sec who won’t stand for this left wing bullshit and it’s joyful to watch.

 

[moonay]

So you contradicted yourself then?! Wto terms isn’t walking away without a placement. It’s a choice. And a palatable one. .................

As I said ....... a replacement it may be ......... but not a very good one. If it were, why wouldn't we trade with other countries on WTO in preference to doimg a deal with them?

Palatable ! Bloody hell. That word was never used in the Leave campaign !

"Yaaay.....let's all leave the EU .....it might not be great ..... but it'll be palatable"!

................You are now trying to re define what ‘no deal means’ by suggesting the Aussie deal is one. No deal means exactly that, leaving on wto terms. We won’t, but it seems he’s been successful in boiling some piss!

I think we're having a Manchester argument here. It's not me who's saying that the Aussies have a deal .......its the Government. If we're both saying that the "Aussie deal" will effectively mean WTO terms, (because effectively, there is no deal), then great, we're in agreement.

 

[Made in Wigan]

I think we're having a Manchester argument here. It's not me who's saying that the Aussies have a deal .......its the Government. If we're both saying that the "Aussie deal" will effectively mean WTO terms, (because effectively, there is no deal), then great, we're in agreement.

As I said you’re re defining. You say it will ‘effectively’ mean wto terms. So you concede it’s not quite that. Australia and EU are working on a FTA, though already have quite a number of bilateral agreements in place.

As I said ....... a replacement it may be ......... but not a very good one. If it were, why wouldn't we trade with other countries on WTO in preference to doimg a deal with them?

Palatable ! Bloody hell. That word was never used in the Leave campaign !

"Yaaay.....let's all leave the EU .....it might not be great ..... but it'll be palatable"!

And as I said, it is a good deal if any others mean we have to remain tied to Eu rules and institutions. You are looking at it in isolation and failing to see the big picture of what Brexit means. It isn’t solely about trade.

 

[Studs88]

Oh wow! The Spectator being that publication supporting Greek Neo-Nazi’s? Not very balanced writing and more than a little hypocritical.

You mention lefty snowflakes but you’re getting upset about a deeply divisive mp getting the piss taken out of her for things she has done. The piss taking form of media has been going on for years (mostly by right-wing pubs.). You can try and invent a race aspect to it but it’s a massive stretch.

Just grow up. Stop being a snowflake.

Right-Wing, Far-Right, Nazi. Terms that have lost their power due to the left applying them to all and sundry. Including the only Labour leader to win a General Election in the last half century.

Whether it’s Priti Patel, Sajid Javid or Rishi Sunak. The abuse they receive is over and above any other Tory politician. Similar situation for a few of the working class Tory MP’s who’ve won seats in the north. Seems some on the left save their real vitriol for those they want to keep in their box.

Andrew Neil summed things up well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232744007136092168

 

[moonay]

.......And as I said, it is a good deal if any others mean we have to remain tied to Eu rules and institutions. You are looking at it in isolation and failing to see the big picture of what Brexit means. It isn’t solely about trade.

Fair point. You're right. No issue with this............ though to be fair, all the talk on what would take longest to agree was the trade element.

As I said you’re re defining. You say it will ‘effectively’ mean wto terms. So you concede it’s not quite that. Australia and EU are working on a FTA, though already have quite a number of bilateral agreements in place.................

I didn't think I was re-defining ....... but now, I'm puzzled by your stance.

All I meant to say was that if Johnson claims that we're leaving with an Australian deal, then (unless that FTA is agreed before July), it will mean WTO terms. .......... ie the same as leaving with no deal.

I didn't think I was trying to pull a fast one with you ......... I was just ensuring that Johnson wasn't able to make up his own version of what happens.

 

[moonay]

........Andrew Neil summed things up well.......

Yorkshire Tea's response to the furore was excellent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232293516862218240

 

[Made in Wigan]

Fair point. You're right. No issue with this............ though to be fair, all the talk on what would take longest to agree was the trade element.



I didn't think I was re-defining ....... but now, I'm puzzled by your stance.

All I meant to say was that if Johnson claims that we're leaving with an Australian deal, then (unless that FTA is agreed before July), it will mean WTO terms. .......... ie the same as leaving with no deal.

I didn't think I was trying to pull a fast one with you ......... I was just ensuring that Johnson wasn't able to make up his own version of what happens.

What he said was the choice in talks was an agreement comparable to Canada’s or more like Australia’s (as I said there are a number, 30 odd I think, bilateral agreements in place so it isn’t a ‘no deal’). The deadline he has set is just a straight up negotiating tactic, though in all honesty sensible, for both sides.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Yorkshire Tea's response to the furore was excellent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1232293516862218240

I saw that. It was very good.

It’s actually very sad that they had to do. Once more the left whipped themselves up into a frenzy over nothing calling for a boycott. What on earth has happened that folk take such an extreme stance over something so insignificant and mundane?

 

[moonay]

Oh dear. You've fallen for his bollocks.

Have you listened to that Barnett/Villers discussion?

 

[Made in Wigan]

Oh dear. You've fallen for his bollocks.

Have you listened to that Barnett/Villers discussion?

No, unfortunately it seems poor Emma and yourself can’t distinguish between the two elements. There is a deal to leave to the EU. That bit is finished. That terminally was used prior to the signing of the WA and is associated with that. The future trade agreement is yet to be negotiated. The wto terms are a default if nothing outside of this can be agreed. There will be something instead of this, but daily hysteria because nothing is signed sealed or delivered less than a month into the process is pointless.

 

[moonay]

Oh come on MiW. I acknowledged the bit about the "deal" to leave being done ......and trade still needing to be sorted.

Ergo, the "trade" deal - a la Australia? - is what we were talking about. Villers herself acknowledges that Australia = WTO, right at the start of the discussion.

All I'm saying is that if Johnson tries to claim - in July, or January - that we're leaving with an Australian type deal, that you good Sir will be stumping up the £50 as agreed.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Oh come on MiW. I acknowledged the bit about the "deal" to leave being done ......and trade still needing to be sorted.

Ergo, the "trade" deal - a la Australia? - is what we were talking about. Villers herself acknowledges that Australia = WTO, right at the start of the discussion.

All I'm saying is that if Johnson tries to claim - in July, or January - that we're leaving with an Australian type deal, that you good Sir will be stumping up the £50 as agreed.

See, re defining the terms! If both sides fail to agree a trade outside of wto terms - which will be easy to identify let’s be honest regardless of the language, then i’ll gladly pay up. And if there is an agreement....

Actually the terminology is an important point. I obviously accept you understand the nuance, but plenty out there who won’t.

 

[hindleymonwafc]

Another day, another soundbite to the ERG .................. is your wallet feeling nervous yet MiW?

By the way, hindleymon, I've genuinely forgotten. Were you in on this bet too? I know you've been let down before, so I wouldn't want that to happen again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51650961

I did take you up on the tenner you waged that Boris wouldn't last past the end of 2021. Is that the bet you refer to or have you had another with MIW ?

 

[moonay]

I did take you up on the tenner you waged that Boris wouldn't last past the end of 2021. Is that the bet you refer to or have you had another with MIW ?

Of course. I'd forgotten about that. You, MiW and Jock are in on that one.

I've a separate one with MiW that says Johnson won't get a deal........hence my eagerness to clarify that Australia = no deal.

Looks like I might need to look for a job if Johnson turns out not to be the arsehole I think he is.

 

[moonay]

See, re defining the terms! If both sides fail to agree a trade outside of wto terms - which will be easy to identify let’s be honest regardless of the language, then i’ll gladly pay up. And if there is an agreement....

Actually the terminology is an important point. I obviously accept you understand the nuance, but plenty out there who won’t.

I still say that I'm not redefining ......merely clarifying......but I think we're both on the same page ........and happy to ignore whatever gloss Johnson/Cummings may try to spin on it.