Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 33 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

moonay said:
KDZ, there's much been made of laws being passed to us by the EU which we're not happy with, but when Politicians are pushed, they rarely come up with anything tangible.

I know you've said there's this stuff re the internet due to come in (though given that its almost uncontrollable now, God knows what they think they're going to do), but we control the VAT rate .......and it ain't ever going away !

Brexiteer Politicians often try to portray EU councillors as faceless bureaucrats, hell bent on cocking things up for everyone................ I've got to say, the Irish leader in the EU (Mairead McGuinness) on QT last night was a million times better than most of our rabble.

Scare stories. They're following Trump's example ................ and it almost worked.
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The UK can not lower VAT on goods and services below 15%. The point wasn't the current U.K. government want to lower it to the minimum or remove it as they obviously dont - more a example of a rule that future governments with different opinions would not be able to change domestically. State aid rules are another example i could've used instead that Corbyns plans could come in direct conflict with once they scrap Brexit. Junker has also already proposed unifying tax rates too much to Irelands horror with the average EU corp tax rate 26% or so and the UKs 18% and Irelands 13% that could be a big issue. Verhofstadt regulaty says member states need to give the EU more sovereign powers - i am deeply uncomofotable with a British Westminister wanting more power let alone someone not even from our country. Power always corrupts and It's all well and good giving it to someone you like who is in power, but whatever you give away will never be returned and then someone you dont like down the line gets to wield those powers and you have no avoiding it. If you put my hand picked PM in charge id not even want to give them more power id want them to get in and immediately start devolving powers and repealing existing legislation to put more power back to the public and make parliament completely accountable in ways they currently arent.

I want to shrink government, localise power and bring decision making as close as possible to the people it effects directly. Being the EU is directly opposite to that idea as is Westminister currently but we cant opt out of our government but can the EU - or at least we thought we could. Our democracy is faltering the answer is not increasing the power of the state or outsourcing any decisin making but more influence from those who our MPs shamefully misrepresent in favour of their own aims.
 
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Adgjlzcbm said:
Our elected MEPs are there to line their pockets. How many meetings have they attended?
Who has the "massive influence" then? What is the criteria to push laws etc through?
Art 11 & 13 I support. The Internet generation has been taking and not paying which causes the "near" death of book sales", newspaper closedown etc etc. I do not want my copyright items to be stolen so of course I support the Articles.
Nothing wrong with Vat which is an equitable tax imo (note necessities are not subject to Vat). I suppose you're also aware of the advantageous triangulation VAT rules between the EU countries.
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Have a look on line for some of the articles about the new internet regulations there are plenty from left and right leaning news sources and they all largely agree the legislation is a poorly thought through with significant unintended impacts. No one is arguing copyright law should remain as is - as there are issues and it needs updating but these regs are not a good answer and now they are set to be implemented rather than refined to make them work for the intended purpose without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

If you are happy with VAT is besides the point it was an example of a law that future govenments can not remove if they see fit. Maybe a better example would be the live export of animals to the EU - we currently can't ban that if we wanted to. Maybe you are ok with that too - but the wider point isn't about specific laws you are happy with laws more the fact of the possibility that laws can be passed that we don't like in the future even if you are 100% behind everything they've done so far. I think free speach should be protected to the degree it is America - but if the EU brought in a rule that over ruled UK law even though it's a law i wanted i'd not be in favour of it being imposed on us rather than brought in by our own system with powers to adjust and remove at a later date if we saw fit - i think it's fundementally right that every country should be in 100% control of their own rules.

We have about 13% MEPs and 1 in about 30 or so on the council and our MEPs have no ability to propose legislation - that is not healthy in my opinion - but increasing it wouldn't make me happy to remain in the EU as i feel it is fundementally wrong for the UK to exercise any voting influence over our neighbours and them to have any influence on us. Cooperating for mutal benefit should be optional at every stage rather than ever imposed in anyway.
 
Is it just me who loves the irony of MP Mark Francois calling for a second vote of confidence on the PM because he doesn't like the result of the first one?

:lol:
 
Made in Wigan said:
Good point. Depends on you define leave?!
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Probably different to how Mark "I want a second vote to get rid of May, but no, the electorate can't have one to ratify - or otherwise - whatever pile of crap we come up with in sorting out this really easy brexit process" Francois might define it.
 
We've never really been full members, because we've opted out of so many directives and treaties e.g. the Euro, Schengen etc.
 
Adgjlzcbm said:
Our elected MEPs are there to line their pockets. How many meetings have they attended?
Who has the "massive influence" then? What is the criteria to push laws etc through?
Art 11 & 13 I support. The Internet generation has been taking and not paying which causes the "near" death of book sales", newspaper closedown etc etc. I do not want my copyright items to be stolen so of course I support the Articles.
Nothing wrong with Vat which is an equitable tax imo (note necessities are not subject to Vat). I suppose you're also aware of the advantageous triangulation VAT rules between the EU countries.
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VAT is not a fair tax. It is a regressive tax whereby people on lower incomes pay proportionately more than people on higher incomes i.e. the tax rate is the same for poor citizens and rich ones. This is why right wing parties, like the Conservatives and Republicans favour it over progressive taxes like income tax.
 
Nottingham said:
VAT is not a fair tax. It is a regressive tax whereby people on lower incomes pay proportionately more than people on higher incomes i.e. the tax rate is the same for poor citizens and rich ones. This is why right wing parties, like the Conservatives and Republicans favour it over progressive taxes like income tax.
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Is this you Notts? The original Notts? Have you also an alleged issue with a work issued phone?
 
moonay said:
Probably different to how Mark "I want a second vote to get rid of May, but no, the electorate can't have one to ratify - or otherwise - whatever pile of crap we come up with in sorting out this really easy brexit process" Francois might define it.
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To be fair whether you voted leave or remain, labour or conservative every bugger wants her out. I'm happy to bend the rules on this one...
 
Made in Wigan said:
To be fair whether you voted leave or remain, labour or conservative every bugger wants her out. I'm happy to bend the rules on this one...
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........only too happy too ............... but unfortunately, it may be a a case of out of the saucepan, into the fire.

God forbid we get that loon Johnson !
 
Well, I see that twerp Farage, besides decrying career politicians (he's failed to get elected as an MP no less than 7 times!), has launched his new Brexit party.

He's also laid into "the establishment",...... and then brings onto the stage Annunziata Rees-Mogg!!!

I'm so glad he supports the working man.
 
moonay said:
Well, I see that twerp Farage, besides decrying career politicians (he's failed to get elected as an MP no less than 7 times!), has launched his new Brexit party.

He's also laid into "the establishment",...... and then brings onto the stage Annunziata Rees-Mogg!!!

I'm so glad he supports the working man.
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Each to their own Moonay, each to their own...if not him then we need someone similar who can shake up the 'establishment' who DO NOT listen to the people, their wishes & their vote. If someone can come in n give a reasoned argument why we should / shouldn't leave with a balanced view then they could sway a sh@t load of disenfranchised voters n sweep into power cos the current incumbent & current opposition are both NOT fit for purpose. We need a total rework / shakeup of the current embarrassing system in Bercow's schoolboys club (H.O.P) & house of frauds(H.O.L) - they are both a joke, extreme cost to joe public & a total waste of tax payers money.........rant over
 
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